Page 1 of 1

Hetzer Hell

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:32 pm
by GliderRecon
I've been meeting some incredibly resilient Hetzers of late and was wondering if the default armour data needed some tweaking...

Hetzer
ArmourSuperFront=120@30

compare that to...

Jagdpanther
ArmourSuperFront=80@35

or a Tiger
ArmourSuperFront=100@80

:shock: :shock: :shock:

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:27 am
by sid6.7
here is more about it...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hetzer

seems since it was a tank destroyer those stats are
probably right...

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:11 am
by GliderRecon
That wiki page backs up what I'm saying...

"Armour 8 - 60mm"

Firefight's Hetzer has frontal armour of *120mm*. This, combined with the armour angle, makes them almost impossible to KO from the front.

It would seem to be a mistake (albeit an easily corrected one).

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:11 pm
by Andy Brown
Firefight's AFV "ArmourTurretFront" values usually add the thickness of the mantlet to the turret frontal armour. Perhaps that's what's happened here?

Andy

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:04 pm
by GliderRecon
Firefight's AFV "ArmourTurretFront" values usually add the thickness of the mantlet to the turret frontal armour. Perhaps that's what's happened here?


So, on turretless TDs/AGs 'Armour Super Front' is actual armour thickness + mantlet thickness? That would seem to be a strange way of handling things (the mantlet being a tiny part of the front supersturcture on something like the Hetzer)

If this is the case then shouldn't something like the Jagdpanzer IV or Jagdpanther (bigger, tougher TDs) have thicker 'Armour Super Front' than the Hetzer?

Currently they are both 80@35 compared to Hetzer 120@30 which doesn't seem right. (I'm assuming second figure is armour angle)

Perhaps the exaggerated armour is an attempt to compensate for the Hetzer's small silhouette and low profile. I don't know if Firefight simulates that kind of stuff.

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:06 am
by Andy Brown
GliderRecon wrote:Perhaps the exaggerated armour is an attempt to compensate for the Hetzer's small silhouette and low profile. I don't know if Firefight simulates that kind of stuff.


I doubt it as I believe the Height/Width/Length variables are actually good for something.

I suspect it's just a simple case of the designer converting real-world figures into game data in a way that tries to be consistent but which isn't always justified. I remember myself being pleasantly surprised once how my Sov T34-85s were standing up to repeated hits from German 75mm ATGs firing from higher ground.

As you say, it's easy enough to tweak if you want to.

Andy

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:27 pm
by GliderRecon
I remember myself being pleasantly surprised once how my Sov T34-85s were standing up to repeated hits from German 75mm ATGs firing from higher ground.


Like you I think, I can live with the odd penetration anomally. It's the weak AIs, clumsy interfaces, and limited replayabilty, of so many so-called 'serious' wargames that drive me up the wall. Thank heavens for Firefight!

Now back to (the excellent) map 3518192 (assault/France/villages/july44):D

Thanks for the info.

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:37 am
by Andy Brown
GliderRecon wrote:
Now back to (the excellent) map 3518192 (assault/France/villages/july44):D



That's quite a challenging map. All that open space forces the AI to deploy quite sensibly and makes approaching the objective difficult.

Andy Brown