I'm confused

Real time World War II combat simulation
usmc.61
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I'm confused

Post by usmc.61 » Sun May 17, 2009 7:52 pm

I have a question. Before the bullets start flying, my little soldiers follow my commands exactly. But, when the battle begins, they don't do anything I say. I will send them somewhere and they will just stand there. I understand they should be a little uncooprative with their lives at stake, but they don't do anything I tell them? How can I win a battle when my own soldiers won't follow my orders?

TheKangaroo
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Post by TheKangaroo » Sun May 17, 2009 8:17 pm

You are correct, they won't move when under direct fire. That is commonly known as non-suicidal behaviour and a major pain in the rear for all commanders. The trick here is to throw more lead at the enemy than he can throw at your boys. Following the same logic your enemy then will have to cease shooting at you for a while enabling you to move your troops.
Well, there are a few other things to do, too, like having the squad in question eaten by the enemy while you move around behind the next hill with the rest or so. The basic point remains: they frankly don't give a damn about your orders while under fire.
This doesn't only account for your troops being afraid (?Hey, my company wouldn't be scared, would it??) but also other adverse effects like difficulties of actually passing on the orders (all those guns and explosions kind of make some noise), overall confusion and so forth.

Well... I'm sure some of the others guys around here, who are way more competent commanders than me, will be around soon and provide you with more specific advice. I'm slightly confused myself right now.

Andy Brown
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Post by Andy Brown » Mon May 18, 2009 10:22 am

TheKangaroo wrote:Well... I'm sure some of the others guys around here, who are way more competent commanders than me, will be around soon and provide you with more specific advice.


Nope, you've pretty much covered it. Once troops start taking fire, you can more-or-less forget about them making any bold moves until the fire stops. Sure, you may find the odd individual moving forward (or to wherever the squad marker is) if the fire falling in his particular area slackens off for some reason. If the incoming fire isn't overwhelming, most of the boys can be expected, at some stage, to start shooting back. Dashing across bullet swept terrain, however, is something they tend not to do.

The only way to regain control is to stop the incoming fire. Usually, the only way to do that is to get one of your units that isn't being shot at to engage the enemy that's shooting at the boys that are pinned. Suppression is directly proportional to incoming fire. No incoming fire = no suppression.

Not all troops regain their composure once the shooting stops. I've seen apparently unhurt soldiers frozen in place for the whole of a game while other members of their squad, presumably less traumatised, seem happy to follow my orders. I guess you could argue forever about how "realistic" some of this behaviour is but, as a game, Firefight works for me.

Military rule-of-thumb - Use three to kill one:

Squad v squad = even fight.

2 v 1 = win the firefight.

3 v 1 = 1&2 win the firefight while 3 closes for the kill.

Cheers,

Andy Brown

Knut
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Re

Post by Knut » Mon May 18, 2009 5:05 pm

I agree with the above advice. Once troops become pinned by heavy fire, it is very unrealistic to expect them to immediately run from the safety of cover or prone positions and make themselves more vulnerable to get killed. The answer is to bring immediate counterfire through armor or mortar support, or let them sit tight while you call in artillery support or manuever other units to flank and provide fire suppression on the enemy.

I *have* noticed, however, a slight change in the behavior of some troops when faced with the enemy. I have found that some soldiers "freeze up" and refuse to move when in direct sight of enemy infantry. ANd this is not just soldieres that are actually engaged with the enemy, but this has happened with troops that I have had in a building over 300 yards from action that have not fired a shot. This seems to be a new development with the latest version of the game, as I do not recall this happening in earlier versions, and seems to echo the infamous armor "freeze-up" that occurs when a tank either comes into direct LOS with another tank or an ATG. I do consider this a very negative development in game playability, as it has badly disrupted to of my favorite defensive techniques: Keeping a reserve to bring up and reinforce the area that is being struck by the largest enemy concentration, and the Attack from the Defense technique of attempting to flank the attacker by pushing an unengaged squad forwar to the attacker's rear.

the space predator
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Post by the space predator » Mon May 18, 2009 5:13 pm

It sure. I agree whit you Knut

usmc.61
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Post by usmc.61 » Fri May 22, 2009 3:53 am

Why can one squad suppress my entire army? If my guys were even slightly competent, they would wipe the enemy squad from the map.

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Legacy
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Post by Legacy » Fri May 22, 2009 6:04 am

It works for the same reason that one machine gun nest can hold a crossroads against an infantry company for quite a while, and the same reason why a couple guys can hijack an airplane against over a hundred. Fear.
"Every man is my superior in that I may learn from him."

Don't take life too seriously, you won't make it out alive!

TheKangaroo
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Post by TheKangaroo » Fri May 22, 2009 12:13 pm

Why can one squad suppress my entire army?

Most probably because you huddled your entire army into one narrow passage.

the space predator
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Post by the space predator » Sat May 23, 2009 1:17 am

Tje capacity to kill of a squad depend on his coverage, his ammo and the position of is ennemy.

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Legacy
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Post by Legacy » Sun May 24, 2009 2:59 am

TheKangaroo wrote:
Why can one squad suppress my entire army?

Most probably because you huddled your entire army into one narrow passage.

This is... SPARTA!

Sorry, couldn't resist.
"Every man is my superior in that I may learn from him."

Don't take life too seriously, you won't make it out alive!

the space predator
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Post by the space predator » Sun May 24, 2009 11:59 pm

Don't resist, it is not so bad.

usmc.61
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Post by usmc.61 » Wed May 27, 2009 1:35 am

Here's another one. When they are raining HE shells on me, my guys won't run. If I knew explosive shells were landing all around me, I would run. Yet, my guys stay suppressed, and get destroyed. I know it doesn't sound like it, but I do like the game. The mechanics confuse me though.

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Legacy
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Post by Legacy » Wed May 27, 2009 4:08 am

Picture it, the Ardennes, 1944. Your rifle squad is resting in the snowy forest, when suddenly, trees around you in every direction begin to explode and craters erupt in the white-blanketed earth. Everywhere you look, you see someone or something being blown to Hell. The deafening rumble and roar of explosions mercifully drowns out some of the screams of the maimed and dying as you try and make yourself very, very small, practically trying to crawl into the frozen ground beneath you to get out of the torrent of fire and steel.
"Every man is my superior in that I may learn from him."

Don't take life too seriously, you won't make it out alive!

usmc.61
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Post by usmc.61 » Wed May 27, 2009 4:45 am

True. Still, they had somewhere to hide. My guys are getting blown to pieces in the open. RUN!!!

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Legacy
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Post by Legacy » Wed May 27, 2009 2:30 pm

No, they didn't really. The forest is no better than open ground in an artillery bombardment. In some ways it's worse, with splintered trees flying about.
"Every man is my superior in that I may learn from him."

Don't take life too seriously, you won't make it out alive!

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