Time: The Ultimate Weapon (defense change requests)

Real time World War II combat simulation
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spiegel
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Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 9:10 pm

Time: The Ultimate Weapon (defense change requests)

Post by spiegel » Sun Jan 30, 2005 3:12 am

I have discovered a foolproof method for defeating all enemies without firing a single shot: time. If you are the defender and have reached the point where you have reduced the attacker below the point of having a viable force for assaulting your position, all you have to do is wait. And wait. And wait. If the attacker doesn't run madly onto your position abandoning all care for his own well-being, you can defeat him by letting him die of old age.

I had the scenario basically won after about 35 minutes once my valiant flamethrower guy torched 5 of the Bosch AFVs by his lonesome. It took another hour+ for the computer to realize this fact, however, which took a serious chunk out of my game session. I did not play it out. I turned the sound and monitor off (and, after finding out that it kept Firefight from working, the screensaver) and went to read my book.

If you think that I am taking too long to get to the suggestions, then you have some idea how I felt about waiting for the scenario to end. I can't believe that no one has griped about defense before now. Maybe everyone is sticking with the Axis in early war and Ally in the later stages so they can play attacker?

1) there should be a menu option to make the computer project the outcome--essentially to play both sides until the end--and an "Accept this projection? Y/N" prompt.

**Ideally, this would report the win/loss result, the general statistics on deaths, surrenders, kills, etc. It would not necessarily give the ranking or details (i.e., "superb," etc., and "length of assault," "major/minor force"). A player could accept the result with the reported statistics then learn of his ranking (AND whether his leader died), then go on to the next scenario.**

2) During setup, it should be possible to see the field of fire for each unit.

**It's a real pain when you accept the computer placement of a field artillery unit and then learn (after the scenario begins and you can press the "fire button" to see where it can shoot) that a shrub blocks 40% of the probable attack axis. As you can't move a gun after scenario start, this version of howitzer-roulette makes me eschew artillery in favor of an armored fighting vehicle even when I need two AT weapons to defend an approach. The same objection holds true to a lesser extent for movable units. Even if I were placing my artillery by map (as reasonably represented by the game), the corporal by the gun could either tell me, "Sir, the cliff here is a steep enough grade that we can't actually place the gun where you said," or he could cut down the shrubs locking line of fire without bothering me. Oh, and this is particularly true when a shrub blocks line of fire just as effectively as a stone obstruction (i.e., anything that blocks line of sight blocks line of fire, too).**

And while you're at it, add network play...

Greatgraddage
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Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:40 pm

Re: Time: The Ultimate Weapon (defense change requests)

Post by Greatgraddage » Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:36 pm

spiegel wrote:1) there should be a menu option to make the computer project the outcome--essentially to play both sides until the end--and an "Accept this projection? Y/N" prompt.

**Ideally, this would report the win/loss result, the general statistics on deaths, surrenders, kills, etc. It would not necessarily give the ranking or details (i.e., "superb," etc., and "length of assault," "major/minor force"). A player could accept the result with the reported statistics then learn of his ranking (AND whether his leader died), then go on to the next scenario.**


Hmmm, I do wish the computer would make it's mind up a bit quicker but the way I think sean has it programmed is that the computer retreats like you would once it realises all is lost and that just plays out. It's good at that point anyway because you can rack up a load of prisoners with your tanks. I doubt I would use a quick fiunish option because of the risk of my commander dieing.

spiegel wrote:
2) During setup, it should be possible to see the field of fire for each unit.

**It's a real pain when you accept the computer placement of a field artillery unit and then learn (after the scenario begins and you can press the "fire button" to see where it can shoot) that a shrub blocks 40% of the probable attack axis. As you can't move a gun after scenario start, this version of howitzer-roulette makes me eschew artillery in favor of an armored fighting vehicle even when I need two AT weapons to defend an approach. The same objection holds true to a lesser extent for movable units. Even if I were placing my artillery by map (as reasonably represented by the game), the corporal by the gun could either tell me, "Sir, the cliff here is a steep enough grade that we can't actually place the gun where you said," or he could cut down the shrubs locking line of fire without bothering me. Oh, and this is particularly true when a shrub blocks line of fire just as effectively as a stone obstruction (i.e., anything that blocks line of sight blocks line of fire, too).**


You can find the field of fire before playing, it's in the orders menu you can get the unit to fire on a position. Also guns can move, albeit slowly and with the turning circle of a large oil tanker. It would be nice if when you are placing big guns that an overlay or something will appear to show their field of fire.
Firefight... Those were the days.....

Guest

Re: Time: The Ultimate Weapon (defense change requests)

Post by Guest » Mon Jan 31, 2005 9:50 pm

Greatgraddage wrote:
spiegel wrote:1) there should be a menu option to make the computer project the outcome--essentially to play both sides until the end--and an "Accept this projection? Y/N" prompt.

**A player could accept the result with the reported statistics then learn of his ranking (AND whether his leader died), then go on to the next scenario.**

Hmmm, I do wish the computer would make it's mind up a bit quicker but the way I think sean has it programmed is that the computer retreats like you would once it realises all is lost and that just plays out

My experience there was 92 minutes. I did not have any tanks left (I lost the only one I could afford), so it was a case of endless waiting. Some of my soldiers surrendered after they ran out of ammo. That might be an anomaly. I haven't been playing long, and I seem to be stuck in North Africa assaults.

Greatgraddage wrote:I doubt I would use a quick fiunish option because of the risk of my commander dieing.

If the projection did not appear to entail more than a few casualties (maybe none), I'd risk it. Alternatively, you could reject that projection and try again a few times to see whether you had reason to play on. Maybe the attacker had some resources tucked away.

Usually, though, the times when I would want this is when it was a pretty sure bet that I would lose any units that I had already written off and that I would not lose any units in the heart of the final defense. In that case, I'd take the risk of a magic bullet. After all, the risk should be part of the game.

I just want the option. Most of the time, I probably would not use it myself.

Greatgraddage wrote:
spiegel wrote:2) During setup, it should be possible to see the field of fire for each unit.

You can find the field of fire before playing, it's in the orders menu you can get the unit to fire on a position.

Ahh. Options/Squad Fire. Great tip! Thank you.

Greatgraddage wrote:Also guns can move, albeit slowly and with the turning circle of a large oil tanker.

I just tested this and it is true. It wasn't true in the scenario where I tried it before--possibly because it was snagged on a bit of the terrain or something--and I subsequently just assumed that guns were immovable. Thanks for the heads up.

Greatgraddage wrote:It would be nice if when you are placing big guns that an overlay or something will appear to show their field of fire.

Actually, I'd like to see it when clicking (click+release, not click+hold) on any unit during the set-up phase.

Greatgraddage
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Post by Greatgraddage » Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:40 am

The computer makes it's mind up quite quickly where tanks are involved, if it has none left and you still have some it retreats almost immediantly. However I do agree that some missions can last an abnormally long amount of time, mainly while the computer tries to see if it has enough troops left.

Yea, you can move guns but they are so slow and unwieldy that you really shouldn't allow yourself to be in a position where you need to.

Troops tend to move to places where they can fire anyway, and they have that annoying habit of all crawling forward when they hear the first gunshots, sometimes exposing themselves. However a feature for line of fire on big guns would be useful.
Firefight... Those were the days.....

holmgang

Another quick way to win - assaults

Post by holmgang » Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:33 am

Get rid of all your infantry, and purchase only tanks. Hopefully you should have 5 or 6.

Once you start the game, move all tanks' markers to the enemy flag, and then wait. Perhaps the enemy will take out one or two, but chances are you'll get at least three tanks on the flag, and you win in about 6 minutes, or less.

Not sure how this could be modified.'

Best.

spiegel
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Post by spiegel » Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:54 pm

You misread, I believe. I specifically said "defense," in which case the enemy has no flag.

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qwas
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Post by qwas » Sun Apr 17, 2005 5:20 pm

I once won a mision in 6 minutes.
Proud member of Seans forum since 14th April 2005. 1 year and still counting.
Now to spam those 30 messages to get into 3rd place in post count. :D

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spiegel
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Post by spiegel » Sun Apr 17, 2005 5:33 pm

qwas wrote:I once won a mision in 6 minutes.


I have won missions in very short times, too. The problem isn't the time required to complete a mission in general; the problem is when you're playing the defender, when the enemy still has a 0.00001% chance of victory, and when you do not have enough force to become the aggressor and and take losses rounding up the last few men or the only tank.

One example is when you have two flamethrower units parked in the woods near the objective and the opponent has an armored vehicle. If he gets anywhere near your flamethrowers, he's probably toast. The thing is, if you don't have any artillery or armor of your own, he won't give up. Neither will he make a mad rush toward your objective.

When that happens, you can end up waiting an hour (or just blowing it off, take a loss or a null result, etc.).

spiegel
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you weren't waiting on the computer player

Post by spiegel » Sun Apr 17, 2005 5:55 pm

I have won missions in very short times, too. The problem isn't the time required to complete a mission in general, the problem is when the enemy still has a 0.00001% chance of victory, when you're playing the defender, and you do not have enough force to go out and take losses rounding up the last few men or the only tank.

One example is when you have two flamethrower units parked in the woods near the objective and the opponent has an armored vehicle. If he gets anywhere near your flamethrowers, he's probably toast. The thing is, if you don't have any artillery or armor of your own, he won't give up. Neither will he make a mad rush toward your objective.

When that happens, you can end up waiting an hour (or just blowing it off, take a loss or a null result, etc.).

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