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Best Defence Victory is Won by being the agressor

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:30 am
by jon
I was defending in the desert with only 1 field gun... 1 tank... 2 infantry squads... and 1 mortar...
The enemy forces numbered above 100 when I had about 30 or so...

I kept my tank behind the hill... out of the way... my FG and Mortar was set up on the hill + one of the infantry squads... the other held a hill to my left as a flank... any enemy that approached the right flank was going to be too out in the open to fight... they would be killed...

4 tanks approached my little hill... I killed 1 with my gun... another was by my tank... 1 made it to my hill and took it... but was destroyed by grenades from my men who ran for their lives... my FG was already destroyed and many wounded... mortar kept the 4th and last tank at bay...

Then the infantry and HMG squads moved in in a semi circle around my hill... my men were barely holding it under extreem fire... I brought my left flank squad up to flank the enemy's flank! My first agressive move... the enemy was completely taken aback...

After destroying some of them... I Arty'd the right flank and centre... then moved my tank in reserve around the etreem left flanks and you should have seen the enemy surrender! They cam in droves to surr3ender as a tank appeared behind them! I took the tank right down thru the centre and accross to the right flank... over 30 enemy troops surrendered!

Many ran away and the few left over were helpless to attack with a tank marching around exposing them and killing them... my infantry troops were shot up and my FG destroyed... my mortar was long outta ammo and thieir last tank had been destroyed without my seeing it!

of the 113 enemy forces... 46 killed... 32 surrendered... 4 wounded ... 31 escaped/gave up trying...

my forces: 30... 11 killed... 7 wounded... 0 surrendered... 12 surrvived without injury!

I think there is a lesson here... actually 2 lessons! #1 a tank is usful in defense! #2 Attacking in defense is beneficial...

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 3:46 pm
by Quitch
Playing defence without a mobile cannon is often suicide, though a flamethrower on the objective is cheap and very effective.

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:13 pm
by Tim_Myth
I'm not that patient. Since previous versions would not run in the background, my favorite defense was one flame thrower and as many squads of men as I could afford (especially units with Panzerfausts!). I'd line them all up and charge the enemy attackers as soon as the battle started. This usually resulted in a hemisphere of enemy trapped in their 1/4 of the screen. Use arty to take out the tanks and keep the flamethrower on the objective just in case. Yeah, I'd lose a sh*tpile of guys, but I'd have the scenario won in about 30 minutes.


Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:37 pm
by jon
That's great guys... this battle was won in 46 minutes... only 16 more minutes than the 30 you decribed...
This was also obviously set on very hard (altho in a campain it say diffuculty level: unknown)... If I had used those squads just infantry to attack I would have been butchered by being outnumbered 3 to 1... plus they had tanks and a ton of other stuff...
Anmd arty takes forever to come in on your tanks... you have to make the tanks stay in the same place for 5 minutes... plus sometimes they survive an art attack,...

Any way I'm am sure you agree it is still good to be agrressive even on defence... I like the idea of that flamethrower... what exactly can a flame thrower take out? I know it does FGs what else... tanks?

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:29 am
by Tim_Myth
Flamethrowers waste tanks in a split second. They can be used for indirect fire as well. I have broken enemy charges on the objective by shooting the lead elements with a flamethrower. It appears to strike fear into the heart of the enemy quite well. :twisted:

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 1:47 pm
by Andy
your running forward and the 4 guys infront of you get toasted, and you cant see the flamethrower, and your being shot at, your gonna at least stop, probably poop yourself and run away

ive had one or two missions ive mucked up saved by flamethower on the objective toastin anyone to come over a ridge, him vs. 20 and winning, tis great :roll:


Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:40 am
by jon
O yeah... now I'm gonna start using flam throwers more often... they take alot of manuvering into position as they have only small strike distance... but once close to an anemy... they are deadly... and also good for defence... if your FGs are either out of ammo or destroyed... they can take out those tanks that just sit on the ridge of your hill in defence and fire at your infantry...

I cannot tell you how many battles I have won much quicker with a tank busting up the enemy defenses... they surrender in droves... if their tanks are already destroyed... listen to this...

I had one FG and it was destroyed in the first few minutes of the game! :(
I had no flamethrower... only a tank that had the opportunity to kill their tanks... my 1 tank killed all 4 of theirs! And this was set on very hard! I only had a mortar (which tanks move away at the first strike unharmed) and 3 infantry teams... my 1 tank saved the day!

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:28 pm
by Andy
difficultly merely changes the points allocations, it doesnt change the abilities of the enemy

hows the tank chages going against late germans??? :lol:

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:15 pm
by Tim_Myth
They go just fine assuming you have more than 4 or 5 tanks. Late war Germans do chew up a lot of tanks though. Fortunately the panzerfausts only have one shot.

Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 2:01 pm
by Andy
germans defending village against russians 11.8.1944

time taken 23 minutes!

Stats (mine/theirs)

killed 5/51
wounded 5/1
captured 1/26
tanks lost 0/3

survived 78/4

rating: superb
massive losses, major attack


left a panzerschreck outfront, had HQ just behind my lines fire 3-4 rounds forward, then retreat. this made the tanks rumble forward before infantry got there and straight at the PS, which took all three out with three shots. then shot at ad got shot up by some infantry, causing the loader to be severely injured thus surrendering when enemy infantry got there.

on the right flank, lane with hedges concealed 2 squads of volks grenadiers (1 LMG, 3 SMG) with another behind in reserve in a forest. as no infantry came quickly, sent the reserves lot round the flank through a wood and village on the edge of the map, they managed to get up to a 1-2 o' clock position on infantry advancing, which got stopped by LMGs of the two squads at 8 and 6 o' clock, and then some mortar to hold them in place whilst arty came in, 2 salvos, the moment the second was coming put some smoke up at the 11 o'clock position, sent in the 1 squad, and the 6 squad, the entire advancing section killed :lol:
i had also brought up a volks grenadier squad i had on the objective (2 LMG, 3 SMG), using them for covering fire

the flanking squad then headed up north and killedand captured their mortar, who had killed one of my guys in the previous manouvre.

tried a similar flank on the left, all in forest, but two guys got themselves dead from an MG somewhere close, mortars kept their heads down whilst the covering fire squad from before worked its way across the field helping the other 3 front line squads in turn to advance. then the MG and surrounding 8ish ruskies decided to surrender when a panzerfaust with no ammo went on a wander near them.

then did a big surrounding thing, lots of surrendering, didnt notice the two there guys die, but nice to get a superb in defence after only 25 minutes :lol:
amber trichomes

Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 5:28 pm
by Quitch
I think the enemy have too much of a tendancy to hog the centre :)

Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:20 am
by Andy
on the harder missions i tend to have attempted flanking done on me, but i agree for the easier ones, especially using the HQ to fire a few shots at the start, i nearly always get tanks in the middle, with infantry either side, and much later, once the tanks have gone or rushed, some infantry in the centre.
Honda CBR900RR

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:27 am
by Tim_Myth
had HQ just behind my lines fire 3-4 rounds forward, then retreat. this made the tanks rumble forward before infantry got there and straight at the PS, which took all three out with three shots
That is a great tip! Putting 2 or 3 bazookas way out front with the HQ behind them works like a charm. I nailed his 4 tanks with my 2 bazookas after they rumbled by in pursuit of my retreating HQ. It worked so well that my two FGs were left with nothing to shoot at. 8)

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 10:18 am
by Andy
i dont use FGs at all now :wink:
vaporizer instructions

Defence must attack to win

Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 6:23 pm
by Laserblitz
Sun Tzu says invincibility lies in the defense, but victory lies in the attack,
basically the defense must attack to win.

Flame throwers, never used them yet, hmmmm what would an all flame thrower defense look like?

In the offense it might not be too useful, the marines on Iwo Jima had a saying that a Flamethrower's life span was measured in seconds, one round or piece of scrapnel and the whole thing blew up. Nobody stood too close the the flamethrower guy.