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German Lone Wolfs
Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:46 am
Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:02 am
Whoops. Ignore that. Anyways:
Right. Before I start, I'd like to say that I HAVE done a search for this, but it did not yield any results.
When I played the demo, moving my little infantry and tanks around, there were precious few times I actually saw the enemy units. The occational tank, and buildings emitting gunfire, but that's about it. Well, that's fine. Makes sense. Fog of War, units in cover and all.
However, once I do spot the enemy infantry, they enjoy showing up as singular little blue clad guys one or two at a time, taking forever to die even with a full squad of my little guys blasting away at him. What's up? Is that one guy representing a whole squad of enemies? Anyway to turn this off, and have them show like what they are?
Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:13 am
There has been a lot of discussion about Firefight's spotting routines. I tend to be happy with them, although even I think that sometimes, stealth is a bit overdone.
There's a reasonable discussion about it half way down this thread:
http://www.windowsgames.co.uk/forums/vi ... highlight=
Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:40 am
Thanks for your reply!
Anyway, judging from your link, I understand that this is a LOS-thing?
What I see on my screen is one guy, dressed in a sort of blue outfit, with a purple ring surrownding him. My little manic 2D guys will go nuts and start showering the poor guy with bullets and/or shells as if they were figting a whole bunch of little men like him, (Which lead me to assume he was actually representing several people.), until A , he ends up as a stain on the ground, or B , he disappears - presumably getting out of my men's LOS? - or C he produces a white flag and moves about until he too either slips away or ends up splattered on the ground.
I have actually yet to see the enemy infantry represented as whole squads. Why? Is there a LOS - error? Is it a design choice? Will I see the enemy accuratly as whole squads when the conditions are right? Or just happened it to be so that all the enemy infantry I have seen in this game so far were just that; singular guys running about on their own?
Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:44 pm
Well, there's not much to help.
People kind of have that urge to stay alive now and then and on a battlefield I guess that means you would try to keep your head down as much as possible in order to - you guessed it - prevent the enemy from seeing you. To plainly answer your question: yes, under perfect conditions you would see a whole squad lined up. If you see one single guy there is (probably) only one single guy in that exact spot. I haven't yet heard about single men representing whole squads...
Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:22 pm
This game is meant to be as realistic as possible so you don't get to see enemy troops unless one of your men can really see him. So, most of the time the enemy troops will stay hidden and will shoot at you from behind hedges, trees, buildings etc...
Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:46 pm
That's what I'm talking about. See? (Just so you should see what I mean.
Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:18 pm
A few seconds later, after the two first singular soldiers disappeared, another singular soldier walked by. That's just about the largest collection of enemy troops I have seen in this game at once so far.
Mind you, I'm not complaining, only asking.
Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:04 pm
What you are seeing is individual men who "appear" and "disappear" according to whether or not any of your men have LoS to them (modified by factors like the terrain they're in, morale of the spotter etc).
You need to know that, even if your troops can't actually see any enemy, they will engage the area from where enemy fire is coming and will often pop off a few shots at the place where an enemy "disappeared".
It's quite common for casualties to be caused by this. You'll start taking fire from somewhere, your boys will fire back at where they think the fire is coming from, eventually the enemy will be suppressed and when you sweep through the area, you'll find a few dead bodies.
Troops do tend to concentrate their fire on enemy they can see in preference to enemy they "think are around there, somewhere".
While a lot of fire is required to actually hit someone, I personally find this quite realistic. In WW2 a lot of small arms fire WAS required to hit someone. IIRC, it was in the order of thousands of rounds fired per casualty. Note that ELITE troops shoot straighter than REGULAR who shoot straighter than RAW but you can only find out which is which by looking at the actual files in the data/infantry subfolder.
IMO, one of the beauties of Firefight is that the player has (realistically) very limited info on the enemy and that, like "real war", the trick is to manoeuvre against what your experience tells you is there, rather than what you can actually see. As I mentioned in the thread I referred you to, a good movie that demonstrates this point quite well was "The Thin Red Line". Most of the movie is spent fighting an unseen enemy who only becomes visible once the range gets really close. Firefight does overdo the invisibility bit in some cases but I personally feel it gets it right more often than not.
Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:09 pm
Haven't heard much from you lately. What are you working on?
Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:14 pm
Try playing a defensive game (Very Easy difficulty, of course) to see what it looks like from the other side.
You know the enemy will have a force similar in size to the one you've been using so you'll be able to check out the difference between "what's really out there" and "what you can see".
Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:16 pm
I see. I have nothing against realism, I just wanted to know what was going on.
Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:56 am
Let me just add another quick question... bear with me here.
Say one of my infantry squads comes under fire from an enemy squad. Allthough my squad can't see the actual individuals, my men realises their general location and fires blindly into that zone.
Now; let's say the firefight goes on for a while, and in the end the enemy takes too many casualties and draws away. I quickly realise there are no longer any gunfire coming from that area, and obviously so does my men, and the firing ends.
So, here comes the question: if I later would move a squad into the location where the enemy squad was situated earlier during that gunfight, would I see the corpses they left behind? It's obviously very useful and important. I think the answer is obvious, that yes; of course you'd see their casualties once you'd get close enough, but I thought I'd ask just to be sure.
Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:55 am
Stigar wrote:So, here comes the question: if I later would move a squad into the location where the enemy squad was situated earlier during that gunfight, would I see the corpses they left behind? It's obviously very useful and important. I think the answer is obvious, that yes; of course you'd see their casualties once you'd get close enough, but I thought I'd ask just to be sure.
Yep. If there are any enemy "bodies" in the area, you'll see them as soon a one of your guys has LoS to them.
Also, at the end of the game, all enemy, both live and dead, are automatically revealed.
Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:24 pm
Sounds nice. Thanks for taking time to explain this stuff. I'm done now.