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Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:12 pm
by Newsparta
I recently bought the game, and i have to say Sean, you did an amazing job with it, very fun/addictive :D but like everything else in the world theres always room for improvement, here are the things i think it most needs
1) like what other ppl have meantioned, static defences, like infantry able dig foxholes and place snadbags etc...
2) modify infantry so they arent so helpless against a tank, that is very annoying.
3)a force order option so that if you want to charge, retreat etc.. you dont have to wait for your infantry to creep up there as slow as they can go.
4) air support, like strafing runs, and when you buy paratroopers you can choose if you want them to jump in, in a certain region

Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:39 pm
by Newsparta
oh, and also, the LOS is really screwed up, #1 if there is infantry in an open plain your going to be able to see them even if they are laying down. #2 if you have a tank at the edge of a tree line over looking an open plane and then a hill, then all of ths sudden if gets shot at from 3 different directions, then blows up, game ends, i realize that the tank that blew it up was RIGHT NEXT TO IT, and the other tanks that shot were on the hillside, and on the plain in sight of my tank??? i mean the accuracy of most of the infantry is slightly worse than in real life but to have that AND not being able to see ppl that are crawling/walking in an open area?? dont take this critisism the wronge way, i love the game :D

Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:51 pm
by the space predator
3)a force order option so that if you want to charge, retreat etc.. you dont have to wait for your infantry to creep up there as slow as they can go.


It is a good idea. Sometime, I wanted to evacuate an wood, and my troop take time to go and evrybody death under artillery and small weapon fire. :(

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:28 am
by Andy Brown
3)a force order option so that if you want to charge, retreat etc.. you dont have to wait for your infantry to creep up there as slow as they can go.


Nah, this is the whole point of the game. The troops don't want to stand up - they know what'll happen to them if they do.

I agree it would be nice to be able to do Banzai charges or Sov human wave attacks but most real life troops are more likely to behave like little Firefight dudes than like suicidal Japanese.

Predator does have a point about moving troops out from under artillery fire. Sometimes I've been able to do this if the troops haven't been shot up too much beforehand and aren't too shaky already. Historically, most artillery casualties occur before the troops can go to ground so once the rounds are landing, most of the time the sensible thing is just to take cover and pray.

The best time to move troops away from artillery is during the target adjustment phase when the spotting rounds are falling. My trouble is I'm usually doing something else when that's happening and I don't really notice the danger until the first FFE salvo strikes.

Note that FF artillery is unusually concentrated. IRL (in WW2), the eight rounds of each salvo would be a bit more spread out.

Andy Brown

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:25 pm
by Newsparta
Andy Brown wrote:Nah, this is the whole point of the game. The troops don't want to stand up - they know what'll happen to them if they do.


Yes i see what your saying here, but you wouldnt use it all the time, like for a retreat, im sure they would be happy to get up and run like hell to get away from some tanks and 50+ guys assaulting their position, also charges would be stupid unless you were russian or japanese, but if everyone was low on ammo and you wanted to bayonette charge... the force order option would be more of a situational thing rather than a use it every battle kind of thing

I also agree with your artillery comment, i think you should be able to adjust the area in which you concentrate your artillery fire.

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:37 pm
by TheKangaroo
I figure that's exactly the difficult thing about it: if you allow it at all times most players will just use it all the time (and eventually complain about having to select it resulting in removing the original, lifelike behaviour) just to get things done quicker. So there would have to be criteria for its availability which are a bit tricky to decide on.
A limited number of force orders per unit in a battle?
Or have it some sort of situational like options for melee charges if troops from the very squad see enemies within a certain range?
Or maybe give it some downside, as you said people would be happy to get out of the place, so maybe an option to deliberately route them; they'd stand up, retreat thirty meters (or so) but give up unit cohesion and comms for the time.
I previously pondered a system in which the distance between HQ and a unit would have an influence on the units behaviour, a distant-dependent force factor if you so will; the closer the HQ the more 'supression' they can overcome.

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:20 pm
by Legacy
The forced route seems the only way t prevent it being abused.

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:02 pm
by the space predator
Recently I have read an part of an autobiography of a slodier who figth in ww2
After normandy landing, is company was stopped by an HMg in the first house of a village. he said that The best tactic to do in this situation his to run whit a grenade and throw it into the window where the HMG is. In Firefigth, It is impossible to do this, your troop will stay where they are and hope to survive. whit an charge command, it will be possible to do this.

But alway use charge command it not good, it depend of the situation.

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:07 am
by Legacy
For one, charging while under fire is a good way to expose yourself and get killed. In that light, staying low is a quality I respect in my troops.

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:09 am
by the space predator
Charge is a strategic option. It is good sometime. Also, sometime the AI of my troop move too slow, and sometime, the troop (especialy the tank) prefer stay there and shoot than move to another position. When you just make an support shot, it is preferable to obey.

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:05 am
by Legacy
the space predator wrote:Charge is a strategic option. It is good sometime. Also, sometime the AI of my troop move too slow, and sometime, the troop (especialy the tank) prefer stay there and shoot than move to another position. When you just make an support shot, it is preferable to obey.


But the current behavior is based on reality, not ideal conditions. Orders are rarely, if ever understood to the letter, and even rarely enacted perfectly. Men get scared. NCO's fail to control those under them, and sometimes get killed. Soldiers get scared. I've read that of all the troops who were sent to fight in either WW1 or WW2, between 25% and 50% actually fired their weapon in combat. The majority of men, even in a front line unit, engaged in a firefight, didn't fire a shot at the enemy.

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 6:43 am
by Andy Brown
the space predator wrote:Recently I have read an part of an autobiography of a slodier who figth in ww2
After normandy landing, is company was stopped by an HMg in the first house of a village. he said that The best tactic to do in this situation his to run whit a grenade and throw it into the window where the HMG is. In Firefigth, It is impossible to do this, your troop will stay where they are and hope to survive. <bit snipped>


Nope, this does happen in FF. Frequently, one of my FF soldiers will be out in front of the others dashing here and there doing all kinds of brave stuff.

Usually, most of his squadmates are not so courageous. They're on the ground cowering somewhere leaving him out in front by himself. Sooner or later, some bad guy gets the drop on him and the medal I'd love to award him inevitably becomes postumous.

FF soldiers can be as brave (or as cowardly) as real life soldiers. Unfortunately, they don't seem to be as smart, which often wastes all that courage :)

Note that, in your example, if the enemy commanders had done their job properly, it would be difficult for anyone to get close to that HMG position without being shot at from somewhere else.

Andy Brown

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:02 pm
by the space predator
I don't remeber the topic, but somebody have purpose to make individual soldier, if they survive to a battle, you have them in another battle. You can give specific characteristic to them. And, it give more sens to elite troop, the chance to have brave soldier can be bigger whit an elite sqad then in a normal sqad

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:08 pm
by Knut
Andy Brown wrote:
the space predator wrote:Recently I have read an part of an autobiography of a slodier who figth in ww2
After normandy landing, is company was stopped by an HMg in the first house of a village. he said that The best tactic to do in this situation his to run whit a grenade and throw it into the window where the HMG is. In Firefigth, It is impossible to do this, your troop will stay where they are and hope to survive. <bit snipped>


Nope, this does happen in FF. Frequently, one of my FF soldiers will be out in front of the others dashing here and there doing all kinds of brave stuff.

Usually, most of his squadmates are not so courageous. They're on the ground cowering somewhere leaving him out in front by himself. Sooner or later, some bad guy gets the drop on him and the medal I'd love to award him inevitably becomes postumous.

FF soldiers can be as brave (or as cowardly) as real life soldiers. Unfortunately, they don't seem to be as smart, which often wastes all that courage :)

Note that, in your example, if the enemy commanders had done their job properly, it would be difficult for anyone to get close to that HMG position without being shot at from somewhere else.

Andy Brown


Agreed. I really like the current soldier behavior. Even if given orders, the soldiers should not always behave like robots and execute them perfectly and immediately. Gives the game a good flavor.

The inability of tanks to see other tanks is a real flaw in the game, and requires a lot of work-arounds. A stationary tank should be able to see a moving tank at 500m, and a stationary tank out of cover at 200m. I suspect that this has to do with the game code that forces tanks to stop and shoot once they spot another tank or gun. If the tank is unmoving, in a defensive posture, it shouldn't matter anyway as their behavior then is like an ATG. The commanders head would be presumably out of the turret in this situation, anyway. I do not mind the tank's inability to see enemy infantry, as this is pretty realistic, unless the infantry is running in the open.

Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:15 am
by Newsparta
After reading through your guys discusion i have to alter my opinion, i do agree a force order option would be to much "robot" like but instead have a withdraw option so that you dont have to fully retreat from game but it tells that squad to get out of that position as fast as they can, charging would just be obsolete, considering noone besides russians and japanese have made actuall full infantry charges since WWI