Island Map

Lead your people to safety before Atlantis disintegrates

Island Map

Postby Weaver » Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:10 pm

Hello, I just bought the complete package of games, mainly for Slay but also because my girlfriend is a big fan of End of Atlantis and she saw me playing the demo. On the demo, the map is an island but on the full version it is the space theme. My girlfriend would really like to play the original map but I do not see a way to get that one. Is there a way to get the island map for the full version of the game?

Thanks in advance!
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Postby Quitch » Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:41 pm

There was a little copyright tussle recently when the inventor of the boardgame came to play. We're guessing the new space version is the compromise arrived at by Sean and the creator.
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Postby qwas » Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:15 pm

I have the demo of the space one and the full of the island right now. Mainly since I got End of Atlantis soon after the original one was released by Sean. So is this copyright.
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Postby Sean OConnor » Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:23 pm

I've changed the graphics to try and placate Julian but he's still having a moan.

You can't copyright ideas, only written things like text, photos and lyrics. He doesn't see it this way so we'll have to let our lawyers decide. Until then I don't want to comment much on this topic.
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Copyright

Postby BlueHippo » Thu Nov 17, 2005 7:50 pm

Hi Sean,

You said; "I've changed the graphics to try and placate Julian but he's still having a moan."

How kind of you to change the graphics. I am partially appeased. :o) I thought you did it because your lawyer told you that not to do so would mean you were infringing my copyright! Changing the graphics of my game doesn't alter the FACT that you copied it in the first place. You used to say so before you rewrote History! I'm not 'moaning' Sean, just pointing out your plagiarism.

Whilst we're on the subject, why have you deleted all reference to Hasbro's products RISK (Conquest) and STRATEGO (The General) on your website. Are you worried Hasbro might also think you were infringing their copyrights?

You added; " You can't copyright ideas, only written things like text, photos and lyrics. He doesn't see it this way so we'll have to let our lawyers decide. Until then I don't want to comment much on this topic."

You constantly make this point like that's all there is to copyright. We agree you can't copyright an idea! The point you seem to miss is when someone invents something they have automatic copyright to their creative work. The very word 'copyright' infers upon the inventor the right not to have their invention copied without their permission. I thought that was as plain as the nose on your face! You imply that by 'artistic juggling' you have found a way round these principles.

I'm very happy to openly discuss this issue. Why hide behind a lawyer? Are you afraid I might be right? I KNOW I'm right. I've got 40 years experience in the games business. I don't have to know Intellectual Property law regarding other products, but I know what's what when it comes to games.

Julian
Games Inventor
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Postby Bob Janova » Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:10 pm

Eh? He hasn't removed references to Conquest and The General, at least not on my machine.

I am partially appeased.

Good :D . It'd be nice to see this settled amiably so you can go back to inventing successful board games and Sean can go back to writing successful Windows games 8) .

We agree you can't copyright an idea! The point you seem to miss is when someone invents something they have automatic copyright to their creative work.


The woolly part is what counts as 'creative work', really. Graphics and the text of the rules obviously count, but does the set of rules? What about if you modify the rules yourself? ... and so on.

However, this is a bit of a threadjack; we probably ought to have a new thread to discuss all this crap.

To the OP: the short answer is probably 'no', unless you get someone who already has it to lob you a bootleg copy. Or you could go buy the board game version :wink: .
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Re: Copyright

Postby Sean OConnor » Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:27 pm

BlueHippo wrote:How kind of you to change the graphics. I am partially appeased. :o) I thought you did it because your lawyer told you that not to do so would mean you were infringing my copyright!


No, the advice I'm getting is (for the millionth time) you can't copyright a game idea. It's the last compromise I'm willing to make Julian and I felt I'd gone to a fair amount of work to try and keep you happy, so call it a day otherwise just get a lawyer.

BlueHippo wrote:Whilst we're on the subject, why have you deleted all reference to Hasbro's products RISK (Conquest) and STRATEGO (The General) on your website. Are you worried Hasbro might also think you were infringing their copyrights?


RISK isn't even a trademark, and I had a conversation with people at Jumbo several months ago about The General and nothing came of it.

That would be a trademark issue and has absolutely nothing to do with copyright.

I've tried to take off references to other people's games' names to make sure I stay absolutely on the right side of trademark law even though, as I said, I don't think RISK is even a trademark and you're allowed "fair use" of other people's trademarks anyway.

BlueHippo wrote:You constantly make this point like that's all there is to copyright. We agree you can't copyright an idea! The point you seem to miss is when someone invents something they have automatic copyright to their creative work. The very word 'copyright' infers upon the inventor the right not to have their invention copied without their permission. I thought that was as plain as the nose on your face! You imply that by 'artistic juggling' you have found a way round these principles.


You have copyright on the text in your printed manual. You have copyright on the graphics on your box. You have copyright on the artwork of the game. You do not have copyright on the rules of the game.

BlueHippo wrote:I'm very happy to openly discuss this issue. Why hide behind a lawyer? Are you afraid I might be right? I KNOW I'm right. I've got 40 years experience in the games business. I don't have to know Intellectual Property law regarding other products, but I know what's what when it comes to games.


I think everything has been discussed now. I intend to continue selling my game and I've made a big compromise to you by changing the graphics and more of the rules. If you're still not happy then the only solution is to let legal people decide how copyright law works.

BlueHippo wrote:Julian
Games Inventor


Sean
Also a game inventor
Also had clones made of his games
Didn't get into a big strop about it but found it quite flattering
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Postby Weaver » Fri Nov 18, 2005 1:39 am

While that was more drama than I expected, my question has been fully answered, thanks.

Thank you Julian for creating a fun concept for a game.

Thank you Sean for making a program that I can play at work. ;)

And since I am now on a first name basis two great game designers, I will introduce myself as Kurt. Pleasure to talk with you both.
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Postby Brice Manuel » Fri Nov 18, 2005 2:05 am

Changing the graphics of my game doesn't alter the FACT that you copied it in the first place.
There are no laws stopping somebody from copying a ruleset for a game. Under International Copyright law, you cannot copyright the ruleset to a game, you cannot copyright an idea and you cannot copyright a title. For a game, all you can copyright is the graphics, box design and in many cases the documentation. The law specifically says you cannot copyright the ruleset to a game.

The point you seem to miss is when someone invents something they have automatic copyright to their creative work.
This is not true. This only applies to the part of the work that can be legally copyrighted.

The very word 'copyright' infers upon the inventor the right not to have their invention copied without their permission.
If you want to protect an invention, you need a patent, not a copyright.

I KNOW I'm right.
Here on planet Earth, International Copyright law says you are wrong. You cannot change the law to meet your own perverted needs.

I've got 40 years experience in the games business.
I have been in the game development business for over 20 years. I am 36 and I am retired. I will put my success, skills and knowledge of the business and law against yours anyday.

I don't have to know Intellectual Property law regarding other products, but I know what's what when it comes to games.
Evidently you don't. Because the LAW proves you 100% wrong and you clearly have no understanding of what you are trying to discuss, and you do not even know the difference between a copyright, a trademark or a patent.
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Re: Copyright

Postby Andy » Fri Nov 18, 2005 2:32 am

BlueHippo wrote:...I thought you did it because your lawyer told you that not to do so would mean you were infringing my copyright! Changing the graphics of my game doesn't alter the FACT that you copied it in the first place....


nice that we can all be adult about it, a lesser person might push their luck...


by continuing to post in this arrogant manner you're only opening yourself up to further insult by a heckuvalot of people who side with sean and as far as i can see, the law. im 17 and no little about law, creating games yadayadayada and i spotted the difference between a patent and a copyright.

may i just congragulate sean on creating a whole set of programs (not neccesarly games) that actually work on windows, when microsoft cant get word and excel to work together, bravo. :)

anyway, back to coursework, or maybe sleep, it is half one in the morning after all :shock:
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Re: Island Map

Postby benjamin261 » Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:11 am

Weaver wrote:Hello, I just bought the complete package of games, mainly for Slay but also because my girlfriend is a big fan of End of Atlantis and she saw me playing the demo. On the demo, the Wood carved lake maps is an island but on the full version it is the space theme. My girlfriend would really like to play the original map but I do not see a way to get that one. Is there a way to get the island map for the full version of the game?

Thanks in advance!


HI waever,
I think you have to contact the customer support department of that game. May be they will provide you proper solution of your problem.
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