Page 1 of 3

A tactical discussion: Missiles

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 3:19 am
by Empty Hat
the missile discussion in the bomber page looks like its on the verge of something interesting. There is probably an old thread on missiles in the archives...

Still I wanted to ask about missile techniques and technicalities.

I know they don't turn before they thrust (?)
and that they have a limited sight (?)

despite this I have really good flights and really bad flights for effectively using missiles, sometimes I can't miss and sometimes I couldn't hit a warrior with a daycorn.

would be cool to go over missiles afresh and discuss all the things that have to do with our single source of offensive doom.

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:08 am
by Legacy
Newbie Tip #1: If you're coming in from an angle to fire at the side of a ship from any distance, don't even think about using a homing missile.

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:01 pm
by TheKangaroo
Errm... would be great if you told us what the poll was about? Favourite missile? That pretty much depends on the situation and the primary purpose of your craft. I personally prefer daycorns for close combat and Plectrons for attack missions. In my opinion Yataris are a little trickier to aim when engagen freighters and such so I don't like them too much.

Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:26 am
by Fighter_Ace
Legacy wrote:Newbie Tip #1: If you're coming in from an angle to fire at the side of a ship from any distance, don't even think about using a homing missile.
Hahahaha! Oh my gosh! So true! This is the same scenario I've had happen repeatedly when I have no Plectrons on board. Doh!

Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:30 am
by Empty Hat
TheKangaroo wrote:Errm... would be great if you told us what the poll was about? Favourite missile? That pretty much depends on the situation and the primary purpose of your craft. I personally prefer daycorns for close combat and Plectrons for attack missions. In my opinion Yataris are a little trickier to aim when engagen freighters and such so I don't like them too much.
the poll is pretty irrelevant, I was just bored so respond to it however you feel, perhaps which missile is your favourite. Maybe yellows are weak on bombers but you still wish you were flying a design that let you employ them and sigh nostalgically as one clips your wing.

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:57 pm
by Old Man Johnson
Tactical summary of all missiles, the way I see it:

Daycorn: Excellent dogfight missiles, but should really only be used when you're well on their tail. You can be a little sloppier if it's a Hornet or Phantom, or anything that doesn't turn well. Also can be used to waste super shields off a tough target. Computers do very well with these.

Geenee: A little harder to hit with, but packs more of a punch. It's really hard to get these to hit someone moving, but if you're dead on their tail or if they just stopped, fire away. Computers are pretty good with them.

Drachan: Like a Daycorn, but doesn't hit friends if it can avoid them. These things have like no fuel, though, so I wouldn't recommend them; if you can avoid getting your missiles to home on your own ships fairly consistently, you'll be fine. The only real use I can see is for firing at enemies within your turret rings or in an asteroid field. Computers are great with these, though, since they're the ones who need to worry about hitting wingmates.

Orik: A lot of fuel, but nothing else is really spectacular. Drop one of these on slow turning ships and they're in big trouble, but easily dodged by most fighters. I wouldn't really recommend this missile for anything.

Yatari: Ugly and worthless. Plectrons pack more firepower, more thrust, and aren't distracted by asteroids or other ships. The only thing Yataris have is limited homing, but their fuel runs out so fast that it's mostly unuseable. You can fly backwards and shoot them and they'll go backwards, but other than that I see no reason to use them. Computers use them better than Plecs, I guess, so maybe you could try that.

Plectron: My favorite missile. It packs the largest warhead, and quite a lot of thrust. The catch is that you have to aim them manually. This can be hard, but once you get the hang of it, they are the deadliest missiles in the game. For the later missions you'll need lots of these. Don't give them to computers, though, since they're crap at aiming them and often are just as dangerous to wingmates as enemies. This is why having Eagles and Hornets as wingmates is quite risky.

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:44 am
by Legacy
Oriks are one of the scariest missiles to have heading towards you, especially three of them with a few Daycorns in tow, when you're not moving very lively and you've got to wager on what's left of your ship to survive the blast, turning so your last shielded side is likely to take some of it...

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:03 pm
by Fusion_power
The missiles were tested repeatedly during Sean's re-design 2 years ago.

The Daycorn in the first iteration did not have enough fuel. In the second, it had too much fuel and would pursue like an Orik. The third and final version got it just about right with pursuit for about 2 turns.

The Plectron was not powerful enough. Then it was too powerful, 1 hit and you were DEAD. The final adjustment set it so that 3 hits with a plectron will kill just about any ship no matter how heavily armed except designs like the starbases with solid shields on all 4 sides.

The Yatari started out as the most powerful. Sean didn't like it because it had limited but effective homing ability and a knockout punch. One hit could destroy most targets. He decided to cut the Yatari down below the Plectron in strength to balance out its capabilities. I wish this missile were moved back up to the same level as the plectron.

The Orik's fuel was a problem early on. Adjusting eventually gave it the ability to pursue for about 5 turns max. It is a deadly weapon in the hands of the AI but is difficult for most people to use effectively.

The Drachan is essentially a modified Daycorn. It sacrifices rapid acceleration and turning for the ability to avoid friendly ships.


Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:43 pm
by Legacy
I have noticed the AI's proficiency with the Orik. Both enemy and allied ships hit me with them fairly frequently, and in a recent battle I must have eaten at least five of them.

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:14 pm
by umeboshi110
i wouldn't exactly it proficiency, but it seems to be harder to dodge missiles for the player than for the enemies.

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:16 am
by Fighter_Ace
A quick re-post of my and umeboshi110's posts (more adequate thread-placement):
Fighter_Ace wrote:My ratings:

Plectrons - ImageImageImageImageImage
- By far the most destructive/valued weapon in CM. It's inability to home actually aids it in combat. Not distracted by asteroids or unintended targets, Plectrons are the butter on the bread, charging full speed until impact. Adding to it's value is the rare exception where rocket fuel plays no role in its ability to perform. Once fired, it never stops, even when out of gas. If only one missile were to be allowed into combat, Plectrons would be a must for experienced players.

Yataris - ImageImageImageImage
- Very effective warhead for mowing down turrets and slow-moving civilian craft. It's low agility only slightly impairs it. Many times low levels of turn are desired, such when cluster bombing. At times, its slow speed can prove to be very effective. Firing a burst of Yataris at low speeds nearly makes a deadly wall of explosives for anyone even attempting a head-on attack. Furthermore, if Plectrons aren't present, Yataris easily fill their role, if the player is an experienced pilot. "Ramming" an enemy and unloading an entire round of these babies will easily send the victim fl.... wait, he's already been vaporized.

Drachans - ImageImageImage
- These "intelligent" weapons tend to earn their place in your weapons bay. With more turn than a Greenee and more fuel and destructive power than a Daycorn, they easily hold much importance on many missions. Defence, in particular, is a spectacular spot for Drachans to perform. Their "ally/enemy" detection can definitely spare a few more wingmen and allied targets. Drachans also are very helpful on asteroid missions due to their ignorance of floating chunks of nothing. Very nice to not have a "stupid" missile for once. It's a wonder why these little guys aren't "gold" instead of Daycorns.

Greenees - ImageImage
- One of the most common/general fighter weapons and an all-rounder. Slightly more fuel than Daycorns yet slightly less turn. The point at which these two missiles lose breaking even is in damage. Greenees provide quite a bit more "pow" to your attacks and still retain more turn than an Orik. You can pretty much bet money on these guys on any mission. Very trusty.

Daycorns - Image
- Most effective in close combat dogfights with maneuverable fighters. It's inability to inflict much damage slightly negates from its value, because, in turn, it cannot attack a very wide array of enemies well. It's low fuel level plays another large role in it's usability. Once out, it quickly becomes useless. An inventory of mainly Daycorns can easily become the piolets worst nightmare.

Oriks - Image
- Although their high levels of fuel can easily be tempting for newer pilots, this very attribute can become it's greatest issue/downfall. Not able to "lock" as well as a even a Greenee, Oriks can easily stray and cause much friendly fire or miss-intended targets to get hit. Spraying too many orics in a heated combat zone leaves these puppies "live" long after they have lost their target. How is this a problem? "Fire!!! *miss* *two minutes later* *BOOM!* Woops! Sir... we've just terminated the president and creamed his transport craft."
umeboshi110 wrote:I'm not really a fan of oriks either. I also don't find much use for drachans, as they are just as weak as daycorns but less maneuverable. I have to admit that the daycorn's low fuel requires you to be a bit closer to the enemy, and it is safer to make your AI have drachan fighters. My ratings out of five:

Plectron - 5
Yes, these are the best

Daycorn - 4
Short-ranged and weak but cripples enemies fast, especially because rear armour is usually weak

Yatari - 3
Very slow, but powerful, good for bombing and close-ranged fighting, but I'd suggest using Plectrons for this. I made a few close-ranged fighters with these and Daycorns.

Genee - 3
The all-round missile, still too slow to catch faster ships at a distance, but good for smashing slower and damaged ships.

Drachan - 2
There are times when these are useful, but not for when you just want to tear apart as many enemies apart as you can.

Orik - 1
Too slow to hit any real threats
@ OMJ: Yeah, come to think of it, Yataris are a tad bit..... n00bish. I suppose my only real attachment/favoring to them is from back in the day when they used to be better than Plectrons. Serious Yatari ownage! Superior firepower!

@ umeboshi110: I get that feeling alot myself... aint fair. Lol! Seems like player missiles don't lock as well as CPU ones, either. Seriously, those stupid bots are always smoking me with those Greenees/Oriks and never visa versa... easily anyway.

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:36 am
by umeboshi110
it gets me peeved just thinking of them using plectrons better and their daycorns not running out of fuel.

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:05 am
by Fighter_Ace
Then again... humans are, in general, a lot better with Plectrons than bot players. Unlike humans, the bots fire when an enemy is directly in front of them. This fact exactly is what makes the bot players ill-skilled with Plectrons. Once they fire them, a human can easily doge them. Experienced human players, on the other hand, fire Plectrons in an estimation of where the enemy WILL be on the next turn. This strategy makes the enemy run right into them unable to turn fast enough, usually crippling them quite badly or killing them instantly. So, who knows, maybe the CPU players do in fact have a little "advantage" with the locking missiles. They kinda need it. When you really think about it, that's when they are scariest... when they are right behind you.

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:14 am
by Legacy
One on one, in identical ships, a human will almost always win, I'd expect. I want a feature to have prearranged battles with preselected ships to test ships and tactics someday.

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:43 pm
by Empty Hat
It's a bit alturistic but do you fire missiles to force maneuvers i.e firing of your oponents starboard to force them into a couple of your wingmates?