Team defence

Five-a-side dinosaur football
GM
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Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:06 pm

Team defence

Post by GM » Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:13 pm

Hi,

Generally, I am enjoying this game...however, it is getting VERY frustrating to watch my teammates become absolute BONEHEADS on defence. Example... my teammate will be guarding an opponent in or near the end zone. Meanwhile, I will be around midfield, in pursuit of the ball-carrier on their team....EASILY able to catch that ball-carrier. But then the IDIOT teammate of mine will wander out towards the guy with the ball and leave the guy he WAS guarding all by himself in the endzone. This happens over and over again....VERY FRUSTRATING!!!

So, ok, I figure I guess I am going to have to be the one that stays back in the endzone all the time playing defence. But then the other team will just send two guys into the endzone, and my teammate playing defence on the second guy will just do the same old thing and forget he is guarding someone and go straight for the ball. I can't cover everybody!! Very annoying.

Also, it seems to me my teammates play much poorer when up against the better teams. Against a poor team they make very smart passes. But against a good team, they either get over center and then just heave it up, throwing it directly to an opponent, or...as soon as I cross center (and I am completely covered by a defender), they will throw me the ball when I don't want it. And I can't get out of catching it and getting tackled. I'm just trying to get open, but my teammates insist on trying to throw me the ball too quickly, while I am fully covered and I don't yet want the ball. Inevitably, I get tackled, they get an odd-man advantage, and they score. All the more reason for me to stay back and play defence all the time I guess, and just hope my teammates do all the scoring.

Anyways, generally it's an ok game...but it would sure be nice if I could get some smarter teammates who don't repeat the same mistakes over and over again!!!!

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Raistlin
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Location: Montreal, QC

Post by Raistlin » Wed Dec 22, 2004 11:09 pm

Totally agree... its what I tryed to say im my post 2 weeks ago... I stopped to play this game because I was about to crash my screen down of the stair... the AI of teammate is very poor in defense.... And im upset that I didnt get any answer from Sean. Next time I will continu to play on demo before buy a game like that.
Probably that if I play with friend that game could be interesting... didnt try yet.


Raistlin

Quitch
Posts: 297
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:56 am

Post by Quitch » Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:17 pm

Team Defence is excellent, the problem is you. As you say, you're chasing the ball carrier... well there's the problem. They've each picked a dino to mark, and you have a dino too, never chase a random dino, mark your dino to stop the carrier from passing.

If you start moving from one dino to the next, your team repositions to compensate, each moving to another dino Stop being the hero and mark the dino nearest you, then stick with him until your team has the ball.

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Raistlin
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Location: Montreal, QC

Post by Raistlin » Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:23 pm

You didnt understand...

Read again the post of GM ... he talk about a teammate that stop to guard his dino to guard the wrong one

GM
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Post by GM » Thu Dec 23, 2004 10:54 pm

Excuse me Quitch, but that is BS. I am not playing the hero. Like I said, I play defence and the other players around me get beaten regularly. Ok, in the example I first gave I said I was chasing the ball-carrier. I've just played 5 games where I did nothing but stick on one dino like glue and not change which one I was guarding. Sometimes my guy would stay in his own backfield. I'd stick right on him...they'd score. Sometimes my guy would hang out in the endzone. I'd be right on top of him all the time...the other dinos would run a play to the other side of the endzone and score, never involving the dino I was covering. And dinos were repeatedly ending up wide open in the endzone even though on that side of the field it was 4 on 4.

Played 5 games in first division, 1 win, 3 losses, 1 tie. Usually I go about 3-2.

Quitch
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Post by Quitch » Fri Dec 24, 2004 8:01 am

I can play through every division without a loss, as can my colleague, and both of us have found the same reason for the dinos cocking up their marking... the human player.

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Raistlin
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Location: Montreal, QC

Post by Raistlin » Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:00 am

Look the question is not if you can win or lose.... the question is the AI suck in defense ... I really dont care if you can still win with a team that play like that, thats no changing the problem. And if you read my first post about that subject I said the only thing that make difference is the human player.... because its the only one that play correctly ... The only thing that make you win its because you found the way to compasate the idiot computer that play other players in your team... thats not change that the computer is still an idiot. And its the fact that GM brought here ... the AI need some amelioration in defense and I agree with him.

Raistlin

Quitch
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Post by Quitch » Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:07 am

Of course it's whether you win or lose. How could I win if my team couldn't defend?

Greenvalv
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Post by Greenvalv » Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:05 pm

Team Defence is excellent, the problem is you.
I'd have to agree with Quitch, even though my team may be fools at times and throw me the ball at wrong times, during defence you have to stick with the guy that you first picked.

I've made 9-0 many times, I can't seem to make it 10-0, though. 8)

Zarni
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2004 4:16 am
Location: Australia

Defence syles would be nice....

Post by Zarni » Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:00 am

Hi Guys,

In general I think the defense of the AI is pretty good, the main thing that I would like to see optimised is its way of dealing with "last man" defense. What I mean is the scenario where there is a 2-on-1 scenario at the back, the AI will attack the ball carrier, rather than stay with the man closest to the endzone. In cases where there may be a man who can catch the ball carrier and save the defensive situation, this is an annoyance (or, depending on how you see it, good play by the opposition... :P). What would be nice (and something I suggested as an RFE!) is an option to define different types of defensive styles, particularly related to the defense options in such a case.

The trick to defense on this game is to know when to commit yourself to attacking the ball-carrier or to moving to cover a defensive position and letting the other guys cover for you. Sometimes you need to let the attacker go for a bit while your guys get into covering positions, almost like playing a zone defense. AS well as anticipating and understanding the tackiling rules...

I can win Div1 about 75% of the time, but the game still throws out a challenge every now and again. Still very keen to try against human opposition... :)

R.

sab
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:23 pm

Post by sab » Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:41 pm

Quitch wrote:Team Defence is excellent, the problem is you. As you say, you're chasing the ball carrier... well there's the problem. They've each picked a dino to mark, and you have a dino too, never chase a random dino, mark your dino to stop the carrier from passing.

If you start moving from one dino to the next, your team repositions to compensate, each moving to another dino Stop being the hero and mark the dino nearest you, then stick with him until your team has the ball.
If you believe that Krap then I've got some cheap swamp land to sell you. The reason that the defense SUCKS is because it's being controled by the computer...Duhh...the same thing that controls the team you're playing against. The game isn't sophisticated enough to win on it's own without CHEATING against the human opponent.

The defense isn't the only way it cheats:
1. The computer's players can throw the ball one direction while running a different one - Human team can't.
2. Computer "Tackles" you while your trying to pass even though you clicked the mouse button well before the computer player touched you.
3. Your computer-controled player will ignore you even though you are wide-open for an easy score and throw the ball backwards for no reason at all.
4. Computer controlled player will pass the ball to a teammate that is completed covered, and of course gets instantly tackled.
5. Computer always tackles you while you're crossing the goal line.
6. Your computer-cotrolled teammate will always leave his man in the endzone and "give" the computer an easy score, whiether you have stuck to your man or not.
7. The computer will just give the human-controlled team a "Stupid-Pill" to make it easier for the computer to win.
The list goes on and on...

It also appears to me that "Quitch" sure sounds a lot like Sean O'Conner.

Zarni
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Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2004 4:16 am
Location: Australia

Post by Zarni » Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:14 am

Sab - get someone to get that massive chip extracted from your shoulder... :(

The defense AI doesn't cheat, admittedly it does seem to go through random good form/bad form moments, but for the most part its fair and reasonably predictible. It's like any AI system - once you learn how it works, you can reasonably comfortably accommodate its quirks and beat it.

I've written posts on here about the most serious deficency in the computer AI in how it handles "last man" defense, but apart from that I don't think there's too much more refinement required. Play the game more and learn how to work with the AI, rather than bitching about how it doesn't let you be a superhero and win by yourself every time.

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Sean OConnor
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Post by Sean OConnor » Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:24 am

It also appears to me that "Quitch" sure sounds a lot like Sean O'Conner.
And I can assure you that we are not the same person!

sab
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Cheating

Post by sab » Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:39 pm

Oh, P-L-E-A-S-E.....

I've played the game at least 200 times. I'm not saying that the game isn't fun, it is. However, beating it has nothing to do with "learning" the AI. It does however, have everything to do with whether or not the computer decides to cheat or not during that particular game.

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Sean OConnor
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Post by Sean OConnor » Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:26 pm

But the computer doesn't play any differently from game to game - and there's no cheating. Some of the dinosaurs' characteristics are different in the different teams and they have different team formations, so some teams will be easier to beat than others.

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