My main problem with the game

Real time World War II combat simulation
usmc.61
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 7:49 pm
Location: Renton WA

My main problem with the game

Post by usmc.61 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:04 am

Although I don't like complex and realistic simulations, I do like Firefight. Unfortunately, the rules that apply to my troops don't apply to the computer. For instance, if an enemy soldier fires their rifle at my soldiers, they are instantly suppressed, despite being behind cover. However, when I spot an enemy soldier and all my squads open fire, he simply walks away. If you ever update this game Sean, I reccomend that enemy soldiers are cowards just like mine.

Knut
Posts: 119
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:06 pm

morale

Post by Knut » Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:42 pm

Is it possible that your troops were "raw" and the computers were "elite"?

There are three levels of troop morale/ability: raw, standard, elite. The behavior of the troops will follow accordingly.

A second thought would be that the enemy troops were actually fleeing under fire. This is pretty common in the game when troops are caught out in the open walking - they'll take off for the nearest cover rather than just drop and go to ground. This is kind of a good thing, as they can't fire back while seeking cover, and make better targets for your guys.

Your guys, when they have cover, will naturally keep their heads down when under fire. No one wants to take one in the face!

Perturabo
Posts: 89
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:26 pm
Location: Poland

Re: My main problem with the game

Post by Perturabo » Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:22 am

I had half of a squad run away like that once.
...

TheKangaroo
Posts: 492
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:07 pm
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Post by TheKangaroo » Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:53 pm

Knut said pretty much it. One addition: take a look at the small window in the top right corner indicating the status of the soldier beneath your cursor when your squad is engaged. You might notice there is a distinction between 'moving' and 'dashing' and 'routing'. Moving is the planned, ordered movement, the other two are possible when under fire.

Perturabo
Posts: 89
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:26 pm
Location: Poland

Post by Perturabo » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:05 pm

I played some more and routing seems to be pretty common when squads getting under intense fire.

They either get suppressed or half of a squad quickly runs away.
...

Andy Brown
Posts: 262
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:30 am
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand

Post by Andy Brown » Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:56 am

Perturabo wrote:I played some more and routing seems to be pretty common when squads getting under intense fire.


And your point is ... ? :)

Perturabo
Posts: 89
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:26 pm
Location: Poland

Post by Perturabo » Sat Aug 15, 2009 2:05 pm

That the same behaviour - some soldiers withdrawing under fire instead of just becoming suppressed applies to both computer and player controlled soldiers.
...

Andy Brown
Posts: 262
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:30 am
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand

Post by Andy Brown » Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:46 pm

Ah, OK. I misunderstood your post.

Numbers! This game is all about numbers at the point of contact. That is why some defensive battles are virtually impossible to win with a static defence if the ground prevents the smaller number of defensive units from mutually supporting each other. Defensive units get ganged up on and taken out-one-at-a-time if their mates aren't able to help them.

Cheers,

Andy Brown

usmc.61
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 7:49 pm
Location: Renton WA

Post by usmc.61 » Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:48 pm

Also, this:
Image
Look how many shots it took to destroy one tank. The game is fun, but annoying stuff like this keeps it from being an instant classic.

Perturabo
Posts: 89
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:26 pm
Location: Poland

Post by Perturabo » Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:06 am

I don't see. How many?

Andy Brown wrote:Ah, OK. I misunderstood your post.

Numbers! This game is all about numbers at the point of contact. That is why some defensive battles are virtually impossible to win with a static defence if the ground prevents the smaller number of defensive units from mutually supporting each other. Defensive units get ganged up on and taken out-one-at-a-time if their mates aren't able to help them.

Cheers,

Andy Brown

Yeah. It's quite interesting how random factors outside control of a player can affect the outcome.

I have yet to play a defensive game when I would lose, but I had one defeat in attack when I had equal numbers to the defenders - half of my troops became casualties during the first 10 minutes and I decided to withdraw.

So, numbers and good positions are very important. It's pretty refreshing after playing Close Combat which is an exploit fest (when I play CCMT online, all kind of stuff happens - hunting for muzzle flashes on screen and targetting them, calling an air-strike superweapon on an enemy vehicle only to have it miss because the other player spotted magical marker smoke and moved the vehicle 10 metres away, using artillery fire to "recon enemy positions" for mortars (enemy bodies in CC are visible even when they weren't discovered by friendly soldiers), etc.)
...

Andy Brown
Posts: 262
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:30 am
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand

Post by Andy Brown » Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:27 am

Anti-armour accuracy is unhistorically bad in Firefight. No first round 88 kills at 1500 metres in this game.

(Which is just as well as the map's less than 900m x 900m IIRC).

Firefight AFVs do a good infantry support job but shooting at tanks is a bit of a joke. I live with this because I regard Firefight primarily as a game about infantry. YMMV.

Cheers,

Andy Brown

Perturabo
Posts: 89
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:26 pm
Location: Poland

Post by Perturabo » Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:56 pm

Oh, I see. It would be nice if it would get fixed...
...

Knut
Posts: 119
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:06 pm

Post by Knut » Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:33 pm

usmc.61 wrote:Also, this:
Image
Look how many shots it took to destroy one tank. The game is fun, but annoying stuff like this keeps it from being an instant classic.


I suppose some degree of all the misses may be due to the large number of guns you have on target there - what are there, at least 8-10 tanks it seems, plus assorted atgs? I suppose if the tank theay are targeting has thick enough armor, each tank could get off 1-2 dozen shots without a penetration. For example. if your 50mm armed Pz IIIs were shooting a Matilda frontally. Certainly at an extreme of one end, but there are an equal number of times a tank will take out an atg or another tank at long range on its first shot.

Within the game, it is very difficult, if not impossible for a tank to see an enemy tank, unrealistically so, in fact, in such open conditions. But having a dozen tanks in the assault take fire from an enemy tank that can see *them* from the benefit of neighboring infantry, it is not surprising that you could have so many of your own tanks fire off so many shots against a hard target that they can't fully see or target, due to how the game is written. Possible solutions: 1. Send observers/infantry forward with your tanks to provide sighting support. 2. Split your armor into two platoons and use a flanking, pincer type movement in the assault, instead of sending them all bunched up the middle. That way you are guaranteed to have one platoon get side shots at the enemy, and thus hit him in his weakest armor.

Remember: Real tactics work best in this game!

User avatar
Sean OConnor
Posts: 1299
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 7:47 am
Location: Cambridge, UK
Contact:

Post by Sean OConnor » Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:31 pm

If people think that guns are not as accurate as they should be I'd be happy to tweak the routines I use.

Knut
Posts: 119
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:06 pm

accuracy

Post by Knut » Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:39 pm

I've played the game *a lot*, and don't think there is much of an accuracy problem. Sometimes, a stationary tank or gun in the defense will miss an enemy tank a half dozen times at only a 100m. But other times, such in my last game, I had my two ATGs fire their first shot simultaneously at the single visible enemy tank at 300m and kill it as well as a second, *still invisible* tank behind it! It's hard to improve upon 2 kills from the first 2 shots of the game!

Post Reply