2 options that would really spice the game up.

Real time World War II combat simulation
pedroski
Posts: 106
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:23 am

2 options that would really spice the game up.

Post by pedroski » Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:50 am

I love playing campaigns in firefight but there's two things that really bug me.

Suppression: The way suppression works is really nice but sometimes I feel like my men stay down too long, an option to make them recover twice as fast would be really nice.

Visibility: Although it is realistic that you don't often see your enemies I think it would make the game much more enjoyable for a lot of players if they could play on an arcadish mode were visibility were doubled.

the space predator
Posts: 442
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:09 pm
Location: Montr?al

Post by the space predator » Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:57 pm

The suppression is just...

For exemple, an mortar shot explode at 10m of a squad, and the whole squad get suppressed and stay like that for at least 30second, it's really unrealistic.
I need to write something, so i create that signature.

TheKangaroo
Posts: 492
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:07 pm
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Post by TheKangaroo » Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:32 pm

Since this debate keeps going back and forth over and over again every few months having the choice would be a genius idea, putting the issue to rest finally.

Concerning the realism of the current speed, I've come to the conclusion that the only issue with that is, that the system cannot adapt to the overall situation.
You are right that in a line charge across fifty yards of open field in which you expect enemy fire staying put and waiting for so long is - at least for the whole squad - less realistic as them inching their way further on. This is helped a bit by the ability for troops to crawl ('advancing') that has been added in a recent version, but in some situations might be far from perfect.
But on the other hand if you just march up a hill and all of a sudden a shell lands ten metres from you (which actually is pretty close!) you might need the larger part of those 30 seconds to even figure out again where you are and which way you are looking, before you can reestablish C? and figure out whether ot not anybody was hurt.

Put short: in favour of customisable difficulty setting.

the space predator
Posts: 442
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:09 pm
Location: Montr?al

Post by the space predator » Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:32 am

Custom is defintivly the best solution


(did I have spell definitivly correctly?)
I need to write something, so i create that signature.

User avatar
Legacy
Posts: 664
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 4:34 pm
Location: Wellsboro, PA, USA
Contact:

Post by Legacy » Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:37 am

Definitively is how it's spelled, but I think "definitely" is the specific word you were looking for.

I definitely like the idea of a custom option. Maybe a sliding scale of cowardice/self preservation.
"Every man is my superior in that I may learn from him."

Don't take life too seriously, you won't make it out alive!

Knut
Posts: 119
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:06 pm

Post by Knut » Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:21 pm

The current method of suppression is modeled exactly right! Too often, we want to hurry through the game, rushing our men up and over the enemy in a shoot-'em up type action! But this game is attempting to be more of a simulation than a first-person type shooter game, and guess what? Our little men don't want to die!

If a mortar bomb lands 10m away, of course your men will be suppressed for some time! Why? Because when one bomb falls, more are generally to follow! What possible reason would there be for your men to jump up and start moving 5 seconds after a bomb lands? Do you think they want to be killed by the second, third, or fourth?

This is a game about suppression and maneuver! That is how real small unit combat actions were fought. Read your history books or talk with some veterans, and you will find regular accounts of a platoon or company taking half a day to take a farm or a small village. This game still cuts it remarkably short, while still giving the "hurry up and wait" feel of the real thing.

I can understand your frustration, but you have to keep in mind how slow and methodical real battles and advances were and are. Casualties were always kept to a minimum, and much planning was done to calculate how to bring the maximum firepower to bear on the target to suppress it before you advanced to take it.

The crawling feature currently offered is brilliant, and a great bit of realism in the game. Even an unmown field of weeds should provide enough cover for a platoon to advance within grenade range, and thus forcing a defender to put recon teams forward to alert the troops manning the MLR (main line of resistance) as to where the main enemy thrust is coming from.

The only real changes I would add to enhance the game would be the ability to toggle on/off various artillery options, and a new anti-armor capability for infantry with a range of 5m or so, and modeled on a molotov cocktail/satchel charge/anti-tank mine.

pedroski
Posts: 106
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:23 am

Post by pedroski » Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:56 pm

Knut wrote:The current method of suppression is modeled exactly right! Too often, we want to hurry through the game, rushing our men up and over the enemy in a shoot-'em up type action! But this game is attempting to be more of a simulation than a first-person type shooter game, and guess what? Our little men don't want to die!

If a mortar bomb lands 10m away, of course your men will be suppressed for some time! Why? Because when one bomb falls, more are generally to follow! What possible reason would there be for your men to jump up and start moving 5 seconds after a bomb lands? Do you think they want to be killed by the second, third, or fourth?

This is a game about suppression and maneuver! That is how real small unit combat actions were fought. Read your history books or talk with some veterans, and you will find regular accounts of a platoon or company taking half a day to take a farm or a small village. This game still cuts it remarkably short, while still giving the "hurry up and wait" feel of the real thing.

I can understand your frustration, but you have to keep in mind how slow and methodical real battles and advances were and are. Casualties were always kept to a minimum, and much planning was done to calculate how to bring the maximum firepower to bear on the target to suppress it before you advanced to take it.

The crawling feature currently offered is brilliant, and a great bit of realism in the game. Even an unmown field of weeds should provide enough cover for a platoon to advance within grenade range, and thus forcing a defender to put recon teams forward to alert the troops manning the MLR (main line of resistance) as to where the main enemy thrust is coming from.

The only real changes I would add to enhance the game would be the ability to toggle on/off various artillery options, and a new anti-armor capability for infantry with a range of 5m or so, and modeled on a molotov cocktail/satchel charge/anti-tank mine.


Exactly, it is good the way it is now, but many people don't have as much time as others. That's why I suggest an option, Realism for the ones who want realism and unrealism for the ones who want it the other way, to tell the truth I think many players would play it more with these options, the problem with suppression is that you hardly ever get a battle where both sides are firing at an effective rate, even men behind cover just stop fighting when they are shot at.

Also I definitely agree with making infantry able to hurt tanks, maybe just give grenades slight AT penetration?

Knut
Posts: 119
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:06 pm

Post by Knut » Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:49 pm

pedroski wrote:
Knut wrote:The current method of suppression is modeled exactly right! Too often, we want to hurry through the game, rushing our men up and over the enemy in a shoot-'em up type action! But this game is attempting to be more of a simulation than a first-person type shooter game, and guess what? Our little men don't want to die!

If a mortar bomb lands 10m away, of course your men will be suppressed for some time! Why? Because when one bomb falls, more are generally to follow! What possible reason would there be for your men to jump up and start moving 5 seconds after a bomb lands? Do you think they want to be killed by the second, third, or fourth?

This is a game about suppression and maneuver! That is how real small unit combat actions were fought. Read your history books or talk with some veterans, and you will find regular accounts of a platoon or company taking half a day to take a farm or a small village. This game still cuts it remarkably short, while still giving the "hurry up and wait" feel of the real thing.

I can understand your frustration, but you have to keep in mind how slow and methodical real battles and advances were and are. Casualties were always kept to a minimum, and much planning was done to calculate how to bring the maximum firepower to bear on the target to suppress it before you advanced to take it.

The crawling feature currently offered is brilliant, and a great bit of realism in the game. Even an unmown field of weeds should provide enough cover for a platoon to advance within grenade range, and thus forcing a defender to put recon teams forward to alert the troops manning the MLR (main line of resistance) as to where the main enemy thrust is coming from.

The only real changes I would add to enhance the game would be the ability to toggle on/off various artillery options, and a new anti-armor capability for infantry with a range of 5m or so, and modeled on a molotov cocktail/satchel charge/anti-tank mine.


Exactly, it is good the way it is now, but many people don't have as much time as others. That's why I suggest an option, Realism for the ones who want realism and unrealism for the ones who want it the other way, to tell the truth I think many players would play it more with these options, the problem with suppression is that you hardly ever get a battle where both sides are firing at an effective rate, even men behind cover just stop fighting when they are shot at.

Also I definitely agree with making infantry able to hurt tanks, maybe just give grenades slight AT penetration?


I guess I don't understand you. If you want "unrealism" in a game, you probably should find another game. What's even the point in Sean trying to make an "unrealistic" version of the game? He's gone to a lot of work to make a great little simulation, and I can't understand why he should want to ruin it. It wouldn't be any more "fun" by being realistic, since most people complain about "unrealistic" parts of the game in the first place.

If you want to play the "fast" version, play mostly tanks or all tanks. Those games are usually over in 10-20 minutes.

pedroski
Posts: 106
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:23 am

Post by pedroski » Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:16 pm

I was suggesting a simple option, if you like the game best the way it is then you could just not use that option and play the way you have always played.

I just know that I and a bunch of others would like men to stay suppressed less and/or see better.

The title of the game is "Firefight" but often one sides men just keeps their heads low and don't return fire much at all, even from behind cover.

Knut
Posts: 119
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:06 pm

Post by Knut » Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:39 pm

I can't see how suppression can be taken out of the game and it not make the game just a shoot-em up, who fires first wins thing.

the space predator
Posts: 442
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:09 pm
Location: Montr?al

Post by the space predator » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:50 pm

Legacy wrote:Definitively is how it's spelled, but I think "definitely" is the specific word you were looking for.

I definitely like the idea of a custom option. Maybe a sliding scale of cowardice/self preservation.


ok thank!

so: I definitely like the idea of a custom option.

knut wrote:If a mortar bomb lands 10m away, of course your men will be suppressed for some time! Why? Because when one bomb falls, more are generally to follow! What possible reason would there be for your men to jump up and start moving 5 seconds after a bomb lands? Do you think they want to be killed by the second, third, or fourth?

This is a game about suppression and maneuver! That is how real small unit combat actions were fought. Read your history books or talk with some veterans, and you will find regular accounts of a platoon or company taking half a day to take a farm or a small village. This game still cuts it remarkably short, while still giving the "hurry up and wait" feel of the real thing.


10 meter, and not in the midle of the groups, and pouf! they are all supressed, and we can't make them "run for your life" in real war, if an officier said "evryone retreat", all the men will run away, not stay there and wait 30 second before moving. bomb fall, it will not take you 5 second to continue, but less then 30.
I need to write something, so i create that signature.

the space predator
Posts: 442
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:09 pm
Location: Montr?al

Post by the space predator » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:54 pm

Knut wrote:I can't see how suppression can be taken out of the game and it not make the game just a shoot-em up, who fires first wins thing.


taken out? no! but reduced, as Soldier get suppressed too much fastly and stay suppressed too long. Soldier cover, in a house or a tree will not supress for a hmg shot, he will get out of the shot and then reply, not standing there 1minute waiting for a god intervention.
I need to write something, so i create that signature.

Knut
Posts: 119
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:06 pm

Post by Knut » Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:02 am

the space predator wrote:
Knut wrote:I can't see how suppression can be taken out of the game and it not make the game just a shoot-em up, who fires first wins thing.


taken out? no! but reduced, as Soldier get suppressed too much fastly and stay suppressed too long. Soldier cover, in a house or a tree will not supress for a hmg shot, he will get out of the shot and then reply, not standing there 1minute waiting for a god intervention.


Now were getting a bit silly, aren't we? A HMG is firing in your direction, spraying the terrain all around you, and you wouldn't go under cover? Besides, in the game, whenever I see troops advancing in the open across a field, they aren't suppressed anyway, they start running across the field for cover.

And I'm sorry, but you are completely wrong about soldiers "running away" while bombs are falling a few meters from them. Every soldier is trained to hit the dirt when arty or mortars start falling. Fragments from even a medium mortar can fly and kill an upright man 30m away.

The Arbiter
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:33 am

Post by The Arbiter » Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:50 am

Knut, don't waste your time.These guys wouldn't know real war if it shot them in the a$$.(No offense to you guys, but come on now)

When soldiers are walking and then get shot at by an MG in the open, they run for cover which realistic.When a shell lands near you, it's mostly likely a barrage, so it's best to stay down and let the barrage pass, than get torn up shrapnel(as Knut was saying) so I don't see what the problem is.The game seems to model the randomness factor of men very well.(I've seen men run up and clear an entire village single handedly and other times I've seen guys who wouldn't move if their life depended on it)

Well also need to remember shell shock, and should keep this in mind especially when talking about squad under-full artillery barrage.

the space predator
Posts: 442
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:09 pm
Location: Montr?al

Post by the space predator » Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:05 am

and when I say 10 meter, I have estimate, this time, I have mesure. A squad at 67m of an mortar impact have been supressed for 28 second.
I need to write something, so i create that signature.

Post Reply