An issue with the AI

A boardgame of world domination
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domination69
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An issue with the AI

Post by domination69 » Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:25 pm

On the world map many times the computer will have all of a continent but one spot, usually on Africa or South America. They will never take the last spot to control the continent for like at least 20 turns. Most of the time there aren't even guys defending the last territory, they just wont take it over. Most of the time they also will risk their troops to take a country from you so you dont own a continent instead of just using them to take a continent for themself. When they do this, they waste all of their guys trying to get the continent from you, and then the next computer just eliminates them cause they lost all of their guys. I dont know how hard it would be to create a harder AI but many of us would like that im pretty sure.
-Jeff S

Spacehulk
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Post by Spacehulk » Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:35 pm

This is strictly based on my observations of computer moves.

The logic behind the computer not taking a continent and taking a continent away from you are both similar concepts. It seems to me the computer overvalues having a continent. If the computer player doesn't feel it can hold the continent, it will not take the last country unless it has no other good options for a successful attack. It basically knows that if it takes the continent it paints a target on its own back and it will get attacked unless it has enough armies to gaurd its borders. It calls 'enough' armies the number in which are great enough that the oposition on adjacent territories will not risk an attack against the continent due to low chance of success.

Again the overvaluing of continents, is what causes the computer to make a last ditch effort to break your continent. I don't necessarilly think the A.I. in either situation is flawed. In fact, its hard to say that the computer overvalues continents, since that is obviously the principal driving factor to obtaining an army advantage.

Of course, I think the computer personalities (bold, aggressive, nasty) have a little to do with the descisions regarding these issues.

The one thing I think can be improved is the computer players should gang up a little better to thwart the most powerful player (most of the time the human). This happens all the time on the board game version (with all human players) and can really turn back a powerful player.

I too often see when I'm starting to roll across the map, computer players cutting each other down, because, attacking a weaker country has greater short term benefits for the individual computer player than taking down a large army of mine. That view is very narrow and flawed and most of the time leads to me easily winning the map. If the computer players showed some greater sense of impending doom soon to be coming from a powerful player, they should concentrate their efforts to slow the advance of the more powerful player.

oh, one other thing. The computer player doesn't think about using adjacent territories to aid in an attack (I haven't seen this anyway). For example. On the World map, if I have 20 armies on mexico and (forgive me if I get territory names wrong) the computer player has 16 armies on western U.S. and 16 armies on eastern U.S. It won't start an attack even though it could easily defeat my territory with a combined effort of both by starting to attack with one and when it gets depleted, attack with the other.

just my thoughts.

LesH
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Post by LesH » Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:16 pm

Spacehulk wrote:The one thing I think can be improved is the computer players should gang up a little better to thwart the most powerful player (most of the time the human). This happens all the time on the board game version (with all human players) and can really turn back a powerful player.


Absolutely, just played a game in front of a couple spectators and there was general agreement that the computers threw the game away by picking on each other rather than ganging up on a computer player that was obviously getting ready to conquer the world!

firebirdude
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Post by firebirdude » Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:49 pm

On the world map many times the computer will have all of a continent but one spot, usually on Africa or South America. They will never take the last spot to control the continent for like at least 20 turns. Most of the time there aren't even guys defending the last territory, they just wont take it over.

I HATE THIS!

You know, it's not that they always choose to break apart your continent... sometimes they refuse to capture the last country in a continent themselves for no reason in particular. THAT'S what really gets me... :x

EDIT: And I think I've noticed this with some countries more then others. Even though the AI holds all of South America EXCEPT Argentina.... and each country has like 20 armies and Argentina has like 5 opponents armies... it never attacks. Exact same with the Spain area over in Europe.

Again! One AI has all of South America except Argentina....and Argentina has NO armies on it!! WTF?... :x :x

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Sean OConnor
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Post by Sean OConnor » Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:28 pm

The reason that they don't take the entire continent is because they know that they wouldn't be able to defend it in enough strength against the other players. So they'd just be inviting other people to attack them to prevent them having that continent and they'd lose lots of armies in a futile bid to hold it. Instead, they build up their armies until they are more confident that they would be able to capture and defend the continent.

firebirdude
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Post by firebirdude » Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:56 pm

Sean O'Connor wrote:The reason that they don't take the entire continent is because they know that they wouldn't be able to defend it in enough strength against the other players. So they'd just be inviting other people to attack them to prevent them having that continent and they'd lose lots of armies in a futile bid to hold it. Instead, they build up their armies until they are more confident that they would be able to capture and defend the continent.
I understand that totally. I guess I just think that "the setting" is a little high. Regardless of the threat around the continent, the AI trys to save 15-20 on it's borders. I just think it should be slightly more inclined to hold the entire continent. Humans are. Probably one of the main reasons we dominate this game.

Also, the AI doesn't strive to kill off another AI to get their cards. Or if they do, I think they should strive a little harder. That could EASILY be a turning point in any game.

firebirdude
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Post by firebirdude » Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:14 pm

Here's a perfect example:
Image
Gray has just ended his turn. He used central Africa to take south africa. Now WHY did he not use south africa to take madagascar and then move those armies into east africa? And then on the very next turn.
Image
Still nothing. Also, pink didn't even make a fortify move. Just gonna let those armies in AUS sit there when you have almost all of Asia? Move them suckers up and help defend. I can maybe see not taking Saudi Arabia just yet.... but move those armies up and in one or two turns....Roll in... :roll: Next turn:
Image
WTF GRAY! NO ARMIES IN EAST AFRICA AND STILL DOESN'T TAKE MADAGASCAR. AND PINK FORTIFIES THOSE ARMIES TO EASTERN AUS!?!?!? WTF!?!? Next....
Image
*Sigh* Gray puts armies in Saudi Arabia...and STILL... no madagascar. This is just dumb.

I'm not trying to be an ass, but being that this game isn't freeware... it needs some work. :( I really thought I'd like this simple but strategic game... :( :(

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Sean OConnor
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Post by Sean OConnor » Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:12 am

I think Grey is actually being smart. If he took Africa then there is no way he could defend himself from an attack by Pink from India, especially as Grey knows Pink has 4 cards and could probably hand them in next turn. If he takes Africa and leaves the borders weak then he is just inviting a big Pink army to come storming in and plonk itself down in Africa. What he tries to do (see the last screenshot) is to fortify the Middle East so that this border is stronger before he will attempt to take the whole of Africa and make himself a target.

And Pink is strengthening the only route into Australia to make sure it's very secure before expanding out further to capture Asia.

Some of the AIs will be more daring than others about how weak they are willing to leave their borders.
Last edited by Sean OConnor on Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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BoxZone_Author
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Post by BoxZone_Author » Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:26 am

I've played four different computerised versions of Risk and Seans is by far the best AI.
Sure it does some things that appear dumb sometimes but so do real people (if you've ever played against lots of them, I used to play loads of Risk in the school holidays).

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