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Sean O'Connor's Games • View topic - Tanks vs. buildings -- too easy?

Tanks vs. buildings -- too easy?

Real time World War II combat simulation

Tanks vs. buildings -- too easy?

Postby Fenris » Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:09 pm

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Postby Andy » Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:17 pm

remote control mg?!?!? :!: :shock: :shock: u psycho! lol. its the 1940s!

all the houses in firefight are single storey, so its very feasable for a tank to drive through it. not sure about the earlier ones, or the tankettes, but a shermans gun is quite well fixed to the turret.

as for infantry jumping a tank when its inside a building, if youve got a tank going flat out at you, your gonna get outta that building sharpish. and if you do wait, your gonna be waiting blind behind a wall or without a head after looking out a window into a few oncoming mg rounds, so the chances of you doing your hero act of throwing a mine of some type onto it is fairly slim.

not sure the 360 mgs for TCs would be too great in an infatry attack, being that you generally had to stand outside of the hull to use it. anything that would be on a ring mounting would generally have armour put over it making it a turret :roll:

on a similar note, how come arty and shells from tanks and FGs dont knock down buildings?
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Last edited by Andy on Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Remote MGs.

Postby Fenris » Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:57 pm

It's not my fault if you're unaware that they did exist in the '40s.

on the Hetzer:
http://www.pzfahrer.net/hetzermgs.html

on some of the StuG IIIG as of 1944:
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/stug.htm

Search for 'Rundumsfeuer'. MG34, column base, periscope, drum magazine. Usable without exposing the crew. Somewhat primitive and scarce but existing and deployed.
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Postby TheKangaroo » Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:11 pm

The American B-29 Superfortress bomber had remote controlled machine guns, too, by the way.
There were quite a lot of things around then that you would not expect to be developed by the mid-1940s like rudimentary guided anti-tank missiles, which were tested by the Germans.[/i]
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Postby Andy » Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:55 pm

sorry, misunderstood what you meant. i had images of longer distance remoting, cant quite explain it. i know they had guns like that in the bombers, the one in the nose of a b-17 and all that.

guess its a case of what makes a gun remote controlled? going mostly off the bomber refrence, it being electrically assisted (to overcome wind resistance forces as in turrets), or being offset to allow clearer vision. its all a bit vague.

no offense intended
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Terminology clarification

Postby Fenris » Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:00 am

I overreacted, as well. My bad.

'Remote' in this case pretty much means that it's operated without a guy manning it from directly behind the gun, where presumably he'd be far more exposed.

As you noted, the 360deg mg frequently found on the top of the turret does expose the tank commander to substantial risk. Makes it chancy to use that one. OTOH, if the vehicle needs to fling some bullets in a direction other than in the same direction as the gun or the hull, it's there to be used... *shrug*

Among the other infantry AT weapons, the anti-tank magnetic mines and so forth are desperation weapons... but if there were engineer units, you might expect them to have some demolition charges that might be useful. Even if it just trashed a track... it was not unusual to abandon an immobilized but otherwise intact tank, if I've correctly recalled what I've read, as inside an immobilized vehicle was considered a dangerous place to be. Even a Molotov cocktail might be a problem at that point depending on the vehicle.

The fausts might also be useful if fired from an alley at a passing vehicle... also useful if there were fortifications e.g. foxholes, trenches, where it might be difficult to see a hiding defender until you're very, very close.

In any event, it's one of the larger differences I've noticed in Firefight vs., say, the Combat Mission games -- in the CM series, even non-dedicated-AT infantry have better close-assault means (still not great odds, with the exception of the Panzerfausts), and vehicles are at more risk of immobilization from bad terrain, or from damage other than total loss. I still find it slightly odd that a vehicle might smash with such ease through buildings, completely levelling them (maybe a 'ruined-but-not-flat' building type would be better), unless we assume that they're all of quite light material e.g. not brick.
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Postby Andy » Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:52 am

i find it always looks like the roof falls in, but the walls stay up, its a bit odd.

ever read and Sven Hassel books? they tend t suggest that everyone always has about 6 'T-mines' before they go out on a mission, it seems a bit unlikely, but the books are a great read, id definately recommend them.


sorry if my 'o's arent appearing, im having a little truble with that key at the moment.... :roll:
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