Tactics Issues on Attacking vs AI

Real time World War II combat simulation
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ginyarg
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Location: Oxford

Tactics Issues on Attacking vs AI

Post by ginyarg » Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:20 pm

like the subject suggests, I keep having problems in combat, it normally goes as follows:

Unit starts firing or is fired upon by enemy (not yet seen) lots of bullets fly about, instantly if I have an HMG, its loader gets injured. std units all get suppressed, and wont return fire.
Enemy units continue to fire, all my units are prone and just lie there, wont move or fire.
During this time, the enemy starts to bombard with art, doing its 3 line up shots, I try like crazy to move my men out of the way, but they wont. they just lie there getting picked off no matter what I do..
Then the art lands and finishes the job.
It doesnt seem to matter which type of inf units they are, they all do the same. Doesnt matter if I outnumber the enemy 3 to 1, all my guys get suppressed quickly. It is also the same defending or attacking.
I also notice that the AI doesnt get suppressed, with guys running along through the art barrage/MG fire!

Also, why cant a tank bristling with MG's hit an inf 10 yards away?

So its all why, why, why!
I have 3.99s

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Andy
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Location: Edinburgh! (its le balls)

Post by Andy » Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:43 pm

vast majority of their units will get suppressed, its only the few that get up that you can actually see. (gotta remember that when you see 2-3 men walking at you, there is usually a whole squad there, the other 7 you cant see)

tanks have almost no vision, i usually use recce teams in mostly tank battles to spot the enemy vehicles.

its usually best, once the arty has sighted in on some of your infantry (if 2 shots have straddled the group, they aint gonna get out in time), for them to stay where they are, so they dont get up to move and get hit by shrapnel.

initially almost everyone will drop and seemingly fill their pants. after a small while they get going though. tactics to speed up this process is to outnumber the enemy in a small area, and using neighbouring sqauds to suppress the enemy suppressing the squad attacking it..........if that makes sense

also things like tanks and field guns (if the terrain allows) are great for supporting an attack, or even gunners placed about 50m behind your line. these allow time for mortar groups and arty to sight in and suppress the enemy better

youll find that the gunners almost always get nailed by the enmy straight off.. this is because they open fire at a greater distance compared to all other troops, and once shot at the enemy will shoot at the only enemy they can see - the gunners. i like to have at least 2, preferably 3 HMG squads coveroing a large open patch, but spaced so one arty salvo cant get more than one suppressed. nhowever once the normal infantry squads near the gunners open up, the level of fire directed at the gunners is usually reduced


on a final note - if the enemy are running about during arty, mg or even some rapid fire its great - they arent shooting and are more likely to get hit by shrapnel, and anyone who can see them will open up on them!
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Last edited by Andy on Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

Andy Brown
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Location: Christchurch, New Zealand

Post by Andy Brown » Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:08 pm

What Andy said !!

The key to understanding firefight is to realise that, once troops start getting shot at, they will go to ground and be extremely reluctant to move again.

The only way to make them feel more positive about their situation is to stop the enemy shooting at them. The only way to do that is to shoot the enemy faster than they're shooting you.

Look at it this way. If you've got one squad and the enemy is engaging you with two squads, you're in trouble. If you've got two squads shooting at only one enemy squad, the enemy's in trouble. Two to one doesn't mean the "two" side won't take some casualties, however.

Firefight rewards patience. If you've got a couple of point squads pinned down by enemy fire, quite often they'll eventually win the firefight themselves if you leave them alone to get on with it. However, it's always better to use a reserve squad to engage the enemy from a different direction.

Enemy artillery can be a problem but using artillery on enemy troops that have gone to ground is a standard tactic that real soldiers use. Most of the time, artillery casualties in Firefight just have to be absorbed, although sometimes you can encourage the AI to waste a few salvos by exposing friendly tanks and them moving them out of the way once the spotting rounds appear.

Most of my Firefight casualties are usually caused by the enemy artillery, unless the objective is a wood or village which are particularly tough places to attack because it's difficult to position covering fire to pin the enemy down while the assault goes in.

Cheers,

Andy Brown

Fenris
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:08 am

Fire ascendancy; troop quality

Post by Fenris » Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:19 am

First bit is, as the other posters noted, to be shooting enough to suppress the enemy more.

If you're attacking, that means looking for routes where you can bring to bear a substantial part of your force on a smaller portion of the defense. You'll need to counter the defender's advantage in spotting you first (given that you're moving) and in probably picking reasonable terrain on which to be -- you don't want to march through open ground under convenient lines of fire unless you absolutely can't help it.

On the other hand, you don't want to bunch up, so advancing in one big dense blob is a bad idea -- it's a walking arty target.

If you need to, pull back and choose another approach, or another target, or just far back enough to smack with artillery. And recon teams will help you judge when you might need to before you're too heavily engaged.


On the defense, you have to be extremely careful not to have isolated positions that can be whammed by large parts of the attacker's force without support from your other positions; conversely, you want to pick positions that are difficult to attack without being spotted... and you may need to pull back rapidly and realign if the enemy is concentrating on one sector.


Ugly situation for both sides is when LOSes are going to be extremely long -- e.g. North African map that is completely open in the entire middle, with a thin ridge running up-down on one side of the map and a bare ridge running left-right where the objective is. Defender might anticipate an armor-heavy thrust (infantry up middle will be completely exposed, up ridge forces either single-file and weak, or some utterly exposed, or bunched and arty-ready), and with the small numbers, AT/tank/arty vs tank/arty will be very chancy for both sides.


Regarding troop quality, ex. most infantry is classified as 'regular', but some are worse (ex -- militia types such as Volkssturm, most Russian infantry very early in the war) and some are better (ex -- most airborne troops, and Schutzstaffel). I'm thinking that one thing quality affects is how easily troops are suppressed, and how they handle it.

courier
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Post by courier » Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:12 pm

The key to attacking, especially with infantry, is patience. Get the bulk of your forces into cover, send recon squads forward, find the opponent and perhaps lure him into wasting artillery or revealing his guns' and tanks' positions. It is almost always possible to flank your opponent if you can work out his position without committing your infantry.

Then it's just working your infantry around to where you want the fight to be, dropping artillery on any enemy who is somewhere you want to move to (or driving a tank through them, if it's infantry and you've worked out where the enemy's AT is), and general de-lousing.

The AI is bad enough at unit placement that it is sometimes possible to take and hold the objective while completely bypassing many of his squads. Give them something to shoot at (a well-covered recon squad, for instance) and they'll never move to cut you off elsewhere until its too late.

Never kill an enemy you can pin down and avoid -- if he's stuck in one place and avoidable, he's of no more value than a corpse anyway.

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