Hetzer Hell

Real time World War II combat simulation
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GliderRecon
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Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:20 pm

Hetzer Hell

Post by GliderRecon » Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:32 pm

I've been meeting some incredibly resilient Hetzers of late and was wondering if the default armour data needed some tweaking...

Hetzer
ArmourSuperFront=120@30

compare that to...

Jagdpanther
ArmourSuperFront=80@35

or a Tiger
ArmourSuperFront=100@80

:shock: :shock: :shock:

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sid6.7
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Post by sid6.7 » Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:27 am

here is more about it...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hetzer

seems since it was a tank destroyer those stats are
probably right...
if you run..you'll only die tired

GliderRecon
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:20 pm

Post by GliderRecon » Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:11 am

That wiki page backs up what I'm saying...

"Armour 8 - 60mm"

Firefight's Hetzer has frontal armour of *120mm*. This, combined with the armour angle, makes them almost impossible to KO from the front.

It would seem to be a mistake (albeit an easily corrected one).

Andy Brown
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Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:30 am
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand

Post by Andy Brown » Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:11 pm

Firefight's AFV "ArmourTurretFront" values usually add the thickness of the mantlet to the turret frontal armour. Perhaps that's what's happened here?

Andy

GliderRecon
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Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:20 pm

Post by GliderRecon » Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:04 pm

Firefight's AFV "ArmourTurretFront" values usually add the thickness of the mantlet to the turret frontal armour. Perhaps that's what's happened here?


So, on turretless TDs/AGs 'Armour Super Front' is actual armour thickness + mantlet thickness? That would seem to be a strange way of handling things (the mantlet being a tiny part of the front supersturcture on something like the Hetzer)

If this is the case then shouldn't something like the Jagdpanzer IV or Jagdpanther (bigger, tougher TDs) have thicker 'Armour Super Front' than the Hetzer?

Currently they are both 80@35 compared to Hetzer 120@30 which doesn't seem right. (I'm assuming second figure is armour angle)

Perhaps the exaggerated armour is an attempt to compensate for the Hetzer's small silhouette and low profile. I don't know if Firefight simulates that kind of stuff.

Andy Brown
Posts: 262
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:30 am
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand

Post by Andy Brown » Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:06 am

GliderRecon wrote:Perhaps the exaggerated armour is an attempt to compensate for the Hetzer's small silhouette and low profile. I don't know if Firefight simulates that kind of stuff.


I doubt it as I believe the Height/Width/Length variables are actually good for something.

I suspect it's just a simple case of the designer converting real-world figures into game data in a way that tries to be consistent but which isn't always justified. I remember myself being pleasantly surprised once how my Sov T34-85s were standing up to repeated hits from German 75mm ATGs firing from higher ground.

As you say, it's easy enough to tweak if you want to.

Andy

GliderRecon
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Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:20 pm

Post by GliderRecon » Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:27 pm

I remember myself being pleasantly surprised once how my Sov T34-85s were standing up to repeated hits from German 75mm ATGs firing from higher ground.


Like you I think, I can live with the odd penetration anomally. It's the weak AIs, clumsy interfaces, and limited replayabilty, of so many so-called 'serious' wargames that drive me up the wall. Thank heavens for Firefight!

Now back to (the excellent) map 3518192 (assault/France/villages/july44):D

Thanks for the info.

Andy Brown
Posts: 262
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:30 am
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand

Post by Andy Brown » Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:37 am

GliderRecon wrote:
Now back to (the excellent) map 3518192 (assault/France/villages/july44):D



That's quite a challenging map. All that open space forces the AI to deploy quite sensibly and makes approaching the objective difficult.

Andy Brown

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